How Mamadou Turned A Layoff Into A Million View Channel

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We sit down with Mamadou from Casual Geographic and trace how a bored TikTok download after a layoff turns into a real YouTube career. We dig into the creative choices behind his animal storytelling, his “simple but effective” packaging, and the boundaries he sets to keep the work human.
• going from environmental work to full-time creator through TikTok momentum
• figuring out when success becomes a viable career on YouTube
• building a sustainable workflow for research, writing, editing, and balance
• handling recognition in public while staying grounded with friends and family
• why his thumbnails stay simple and how he builds a curiosity gap with titles
• separating shorts from long-form content and protecting the upload cadence
• improving storytelling, B-roll rhythm, and a talk-first scripting process
• learning copyright the hard way and moving to licensed stock footage
• delegating to an editor without losing creative control
• avoiding AI tools to keep the soul and credibility of the work
• aiming for real-world conservation impact through field videos and donations
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Transcript

TikTok Joke Turns Into Momentum

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I downloaded TikTok, which I said I would never do. I was that person that made fun of TikTok, made fun of people that were on TikTok, downloaded it as a joke, April 15th, 2020. I was laid off the very next day, completely unrelated. I was uh bored, unemployed. I was in the house, ended up making one video. I just assumed I would stop talking about it when the videos kind of fell off, and it never really did.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Hey, welcome to the only podcast that will go to the ends of the earth to get to you. I'm Travis. As always, I'm here to help you grow your YouTube channels, and today I have an incredibly special guest. Uh, Mamadu, I'm so over the moon to have you here because you have one of the most unusual YouTube channels I've seen in quite a long time with an amazing name, uh Casual Geographic. Uh, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Glad to be here, man. Thank you. And uh appreciate that. I didn't even have to pay you for any of that, but uh I'm super stoked to be here, man. Things are gonna be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

And if you're new here watching the show, uh listen, we're here to help you grow your YouTube channels. We do that a couple different ways. Uh sometimes we'll answer questions that you email in. But today we're gonna talk to a creator who's doing things in the way that we all want to do. We just want to be ourselves and cover a subject. And uh hopefully you'll learn something. If you listen to the audio podcast, links will be in the show notes. If you listen to the YouTube channel, of course, everything will be in the description. Of course, if you feel like it, you can hit that subscribe button or that spicy like button. So let's get right into it. Tell us about yourself before YouTube. Who were you before YouTube and and social media at all? Like who are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Okay, before YouTube, the ancient times. Uh let's see. Uh I went to Rutgers uh University in New Brunswick. Uh graduated uh with uh environmental science degree, which I have to keep reminding people has nothing to do with animals at all. That always surprises people. Um yeah, I went into environment management. I was doing um what what was I do? I was a field technician slash project survey manager, which basically means I think I was a little bit too good on my job too early on, so they started putting me in other stuff. But yeah, I was only there for about three months, which is really weird to think about that time of my life, because no, January to March. No, yeah, it was actually two months, two months, but I got uh let go in April because you know, certain events happened in 2020 that kind of made our line of work pretty difficult. You know, a lot of our work was in New York, which became the epicenter of like the virus and everything. So yeah, I mean, uh no hard feelings, obviously, but uh yeah, they let me go. And I bring this up every sex every single time I get the chance because it's never not funny to me. I downloaded TikTok, which I said I would never do. I was that person that made fun of TikTok, made fun of people that were on TikTok, downloaded it as a joke, uh, April 15th, 2020, and I was laid off the very next day, completely unrelated, but all of a sudden, you know, I was uh bored, unemployed. I was in the house, like nothing better to do. And um, yeah, me and my brother, we like put together like a TikTok, which was uh a process because it took about like what three hours for a what a less than 10 second skit. So that tells you how like tech savvy I was at the time. But yeah, I was just making content like pretty much everybody else. I was making uh situational comedic skit videos, just following trends like everybody, because you know, I didn't think people I didn't think there was a market for me talking about uh animals the way that I am now. I didn't think people would care as much, but you know, I ended up making one video and I still remember it. It was uh animals that are way bigger than you think, because I saw a video of a moose on the highway walking next to a car, and I like to think I know a lot about animals, and that freaked me out. I was already aware of moose, so I was like, this might be something people might be interested in. I did that video, it did well. So, you know, I did the typical influencer TikTok thing of just taking something that works and driving it into the dirt, and uh, yeah, it kind of snowballed from there. The video, I just assumed I would stop talking about it when the videos kind of fell off, and it never really did. Ended up building like a platform around it that became all of my content. And um eventually I uh got bullied, and I really do mean bullied into like moving onto YouTube because I did not want to go on YouTube at all. I had uh I it's always funny. I always used to tell my friends back in high school, like I never liked the idea of like really putting myself out there to like even hundreds of people, let alone like millions or whatever the number is now. But you know, people were telling me you got to get on YouTube, especially since people thought the app was gonna get banned. You know, it's funny how like we six years ago that was still like a fear that was looming over us. So yeah, I went on to YouTube, and I want to put that kind of in quotes because for the most part, I was just taking a bunch of my TikToks, putting them in compilations and throwing those on YouTube. It probably wasn't until I want to say 2021 that I started making content, long-form content dedicated to YouTube. Because to be honest, I didn't think like uh I didn't think I could really hack it there. I felt like, yeah, sure, I could be funny on TikTok uh for like maybe 60 seconds at a time, but like making an entire maybe like 10-minute video or even longer, I didn't think that was really in my wheelhouse. But um, I mean, like fast forward now, I'm really glad that I ended up getting forced into that because uh feel like I'm way more of a YouTuber than a TikToker now. So yeah, that's kind of uh that's kind of the lore. That's kind of how I ended up here.

When Social Media Starts Paying

SPEAKER_00 4:56

That's crazy. Uh, we're definitely gonna dig into more specifics about that. Let's talk a little bit about so you were unemployed and you did this kind of as a joke, or at least on TikTok. At any point during that time when you were unemployed, did you start making money on social media so you didn't have to get another job, or did you get another job and just kind of did it while you were doing TikTok?

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Uh yeah, so that's the thing. I was actually in a pretty blessed position looking back where uh I was still living with my parents, even though I had just graduated. I was class of 2019. So I got out there at like the perfect time. You know, those those Zoom classes would not have been good for me if I was able to fill the right now. But um, yeah, I was living with my parents, even though I was now out of a job. I basically still had that uh that safety net to fall back on. Uh they were I wasn't really getting pressed too much to like go look for employment because you know, wasn't really much out there at the time. And uh I don't think I started making money on social media until because this was around this was when the app really kind of started to like you know blossom because everybody was inside. I didn't start making money until I want to say either the end of 2020 or beginning of 2021. And I started on the app in April. So I was kind of it's so funny that that period of like time just felt like the Twilight Zone. It felt like nothing like really maybe not that nothing really mattered, but it just felt like the world was in a state of suspended animation. So I was kind of just putting videos out into the void, mostly for fun, and obviously, you know, the dopamine rush of having people engage with your content, leaving likes and stuff. That was nice too, you know, that little self-serving reason why. But yeah, for the most part, I was kind of just uh Yeah, I was kind of just making the kind of videos I think I would have liked to see, you know, uh uh like as a kid or as anybody that's kind of consuming uh uh consuming content on TikTok. But um yeah, uh to answer your question, probably it was a lot later down the line. It took like a couple of months, and I wasn't even really like thinking of it that way. Like any money I got was like, oh, okay, that's cool, that's fun. That's something that's gonna hold me over. Definitely didn't see it being a career at all. When did it become like, oh crap, I can actually do this for a career? It's so funny when people ask me that because um within my first animal video, uh, my uh basically all my metrics kind of blew up. It felt like overnight, uh, went from like 40,000 to like a hundred thousand, and then the uh a million wasn't that far afterwards, like on TikTok, and then several uh millions. But even at that point, it kind of felt like you know, this is nice, but this is kind of like probably a flash in the pan kind of thing. I wasn't one of those people that got their first million and was like, well, I obviously have to go to LA now. That's just the question. Um but yeah, I I can't even really uh def I can't even really pinpoint it just because for the longest I wasn't even really thinking of like the path ahead. I was just kind of thinking, this is just what I'm gonna do until I'm not really doing anything else. I would say it wasn't until I started putting my stuff on YouTube and it started doing well there that I was like, oh, I might actually have something here, you know, because with TikTok, I kind of felt like um I had I did join at like the perfect time, and I was I had the circumstances kind of aligned for me to like really maximize what I was doing. You know, I was I was making like four to five videos a day, and that's not something I'd be able to do if I was like living on my own and had to support myself or if I had an additional job. So yeah, I was able to do that. But you know, once I was able to see like a similar success on YouTube, uh a platform that I did not feel secure enough to like just jump onto, uh, that's where I felt like, okay, this could be like a viable like uh career for me. And that's something I never even really considered.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, I I want to talk more about the business in a minute, but for people who don't know, Casual Geographic is about animals. It is kind of like a play on National Geographic. It is a different way of talking about animals, which I actually really like because a lot of the um, first of all, I think documentaries about anything are interesting. I just like documentaries. Documentaries about animals can be super fascinating. But you take it in a way that's almost in a meme way, but very tongue-in-cheek, but fun to you're still learning. Um why did you create of I I just I I can't wrap my head around no one else has really done it like this, which is great, which I think makes you so interesting and kind of makes you the the market leader in this thing because people aren't talking about animals in this way. Um what what about it is something that's interesting? Like, what interests you about animals specifically that you talk about, like raccoons and and flying animals, just it's crazy what's on your channel. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

It's so funny. I always get asked this question, and I'll usually answer something like, Oh, well, you know, I had like if you remember those zoo books commercials back in the day, I had all the zoo books. The first zoo book I ever got were elephants. My favorite animal is the elephant, so I figured, oh, well, this makes sense. You know, I watched a lot of uh Animal Planet Discovery Channel. Uh I wasn't allowed to watch TV on the weekdays, but my loophole was, well, it's educational, so you can't really tell me anything. So that was that was my strat for a while. Literally, I had zoo tycoon, like the computer game. I had zoo vet, which is kind of self-explanatory. But none of those were even the reason why I liked animals. I had those things because I already liked animals. Like as young as three years old, I would like I would draw these like pictures of animals, staple them together, give them to my mom and be like, hey, I made a book. So and that's when I was like three, four years old. So I really have no idea where like the uh fixation came from, but um, it's just something I never really like let go of. Um, even when I like started exploring other interests, like that was always like a pretty core uh aspect of my personality, which is why it was so funny to like blow up on like social media and everything, because I would have people reach out to me that I haven't spoken to in five, ten, fifteen years, and the overwhelming like sentiment was wasn't even that they were surprised. They were like, Well, if you were gonna blow up from anything, yeah. That was it. So yeah, that's that's uh yeah. I mean, you you kind of hit on it. Like, yeah, I'm pretty much just being myself, and I think that contributes a lot to like the success that I've had.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

100%. I mean, you can tell you're a genuine guy. Do you have like a lot of pets or animals yourself? You're gonna be really surprised with that answer.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Uh, unless you count like the fish I had for like two months before they like expired. Nah, and I never had any pets. The closest I had were I would I I would have um friends like have me watch like their cats or their dog, but like I don't have like a pet of my own, never had. Uh gonna try to like change that like this year pretty soon, but um, yeah, and maybe that's why I kind of like dove even more into the animal fascination, just because I didn't have any like in my house. So yeah, but that always like surprises people when I mention that.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Is that something that as a person you're changing? Because you said you want to, you're thinking about it this year. Something has changed within you in the last year or so that makes you want to have that, or is it is it just you're just curious what it's like to really own one, or what what's to be honest, in the beginning, uh my mom, I'm not gonna say my mom doesn't like animals, but I don't think she likes animals in her living space in your beam apartment.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

So me, I I like Rottweilers. So I oh you try convincing you know immigrant mother that that you know you can bring a rottweiler into your apartment. And also I think it's you know the responsibility thing. You know, every kid wants a dog, but I don't think every kid wants to go walk a dog like in a rainstorm or even in this weather. So it went from uh I don't think my parents want pets and maybe they don't think I'm responsible enough to me growing up, getting my own place and being like, they might maybe they're right.

Routine Balance And Creator Life

SPEAKER_00 12:14

So yeah, that's true. It's a lot of responsibility. And yeah, as a content creator who's having a lot of success, uh, you probably are being pulled in multiple directions. What does a day in your life look like?

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Honestly, it can vary, but for the most part, and that's something I've kind of worked on the last couple of years, having a more sustainable schedule. So uh I'm not like getting burnt out or anything, but uh I try to treat it like basically like a job, just uh just so you can keep yourself accountable. Try to be in my chair. I don't know if you can see it over there. Uh take a look. Oh, okay. Right, no, right there. There it is. Oh, nice. So yeah, I have a little I have a little setup. But I try to be in my chair by like 9 a.m. Um and it depends on what I'm working on. So if I if it's a YouTube-focused week, then I'll be working on like researching, or if I'm ready to actually start writing, I'll be writing, or I'll start like editing, or well, now that I have an editor, I work alongside my editor working on uh a video from like cradle to grave. It could be anywhere from like probably 10 days or maybe a little more than two weeks for each video. And these days I have more of an assembly line kind of production where uh I'm essentially working on like maybe three videos at the same time while also trying to find some time to like uh get some short form content out there because uh oh yeah, just like as advice to anybody that's starting out, short form is like that that is kind of what's in right now. Uh, TikTok, Instagram, reels, Facebook. Facebook surprised me. That's something I I wasn't even considering, but you know, there are so many people that impersonate me on Facebook to a lot of success that I was like, I might as well get in on this too. But yeah, short trying to like make sure that I'm staying consistent with the short form. But uh yeah, I mean, like uh I feel like it's a pretty good schedule. I feel like uh there's almost always something to do each day, but um, I think I've gotten a lot better at the whole work-life balance thing where I'm not just tunnel visioned on getting a certain project out and then just laying burnt out until it's time to like work on the next one. But uh yeah, the uh schedule these days can get a little bit packed, but I think that's a great thing about doing something I'm legitimately like interested in. Like if it was something that I'd like not even gonna say that I didn't care about, but something that like took a little bit more mental bandwidth to like get into, then yeah, the burnout would probably be a lot worse. But the fact that it's stuff that I'd probably be looking up or reading into on my own, I think that's really helped me a lot.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Yeah, it's it's better to have something you're passionate about and you like, not just that is successful or popular. How does this affect your your like social life? Do you have friends that get to hang out with you and stuff? Do you uh do you do you have a normal life uh outside of uh consecration? I would say that I do actually.

Recognition In Public And Staying Grounded

SPEAKER_01 14:41

I would say that the relationships that I have um are actually what help keep me grounded. I mean, I like to think I'm a pretty like humble person and I'm not gonna let like uh certain metrics or an amount of engagement get to my head, but also I know that's not gonna happen because you know I have friends that kind of keep me in check if that were the case. You know, they love kind of giving me uh giving me crap or whatever. I'm not allowed to curse you, are I? No, it's fine. You can do whatever you want. My mom's gonna watch this. I'm gonna try not to. Okay, that's fair. That's fair. But um, yeah, you know, my the my friends love to do this thing where like if I get recognized in public, they make kind of a big deal out of it, or if we're ever like online somewhere, they'll be like, uh, oh, do you know who this guy is or something? So I'm gonna go drink and pretend I don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, they're real jerks, they're jerks sometimes. But uh but you know, that kind of stuff does keep you grounded, it keeps you humble. And uh, you know, sometimes I'm not as available as I'd like to be just because like the um I even though I kind of set my own hours and I work for myself, I feel like uh in totality I kind of do work more than I would have if I made stayed in like the office or the field as I was in environmental engineering. But uh for the most part, I feel like uh hasn't really had an effect on my social life, just because again, like this this uh career has allowed me to basically stay the same person that I've always been. So that's why, again, people that haven't seen me in like almost two decades are like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So yeah, I think that's been that's been great.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

You talked a little bit about briefly about when people meet you. I'm always curious about that. I asked almost every creator what it's like when you're being um recognized. Can you talk about two things? Number one, the first time you remember being recognized, what that experience was like and what it's kind of like nowadays. Okay, that's really funny.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

The first time I was recognized, uh, I want to say it was the end of 2021, and that's when I first started kind of like going outside like that. Because even when I did go outside before, I was masked up. So I'm pretty sure even if you think you know me, you're probably not sure at risk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But um, it was really funny because I was walking with um, she wasn't even my girlfriend at the time, but like uh yeah, we were at a mall, and then um the thing is, I was not honest with her about what I was doing for a living just because Oh, we're gonna talk about that. We're gonna talk about it. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. I feel like, oh, what do you do for a living? I'm an influencer. Yeah, I can only imagine the the girl, what do the girls call it? They say the ick. I can only imagine what would have gone through her head. But so I said, like, oh, I work in environmental management, which would have been true if I met her like uh two years ago. But she knew who I was, like before we even like met officially. So like she was just like, okay, he's lying, and that's kind of weird. But we were at a mall, and then some guy like came up to me, some kid was like, Hey, yo, I love your videos. Oh, can I I don't even remember if he asked for a picture or anything. I think he just came just to say uh just to say some nice things and walked away. But then I looked at her and I was like, Well, like, yeah, well, and I'm like, oh, okay. But yeah, that was really funny because I never expected something like that to happen. You never and I guess that's most people, you never think your videos, you never think of like the kind of impact your videos are gonna have until you actually like have people have real-world, real life experiences with people that have like engaged with your content. So it's always it's always kind of a flashbang when it happens, just because I feel like um again, I'm not naturally a person that really puts themselves out there. So my initial reaction to being recognized is kind of like, I don't know. I feel like I'm getting better at it these days, but it's always uh it's always kind of a surprise to me. What's kind of a common current nowadays?

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Is it like you're out eating or something and someone comes up? Like, what's a common kind of because your audience is going to be different than a lot of other quote influencers. I think they're gonna be really educated, but also kind of like mean culture. But it I would imagine that they'd be kind of well behaved. Is that right?

Family Reactions And Hidden Success

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah, no, I've never had an experience where I'm like doing something where I'm like out with family or I'm eating and somebody like interrupts like dinner or anything. That they've usually been very respectful. Uh what's really funny is how it usually happens the same way where we're already having like a conversation, and then they start giving me that look. And I I've grown to understand what that look means, but I like messing with people too. So they'll ask leading questions where it'll be like, You seem familiar. Do I know you from somewhere? And then I'll play into it. I'm like, well, did you go to this high school? I mean, I went to Rutgers, oh, you from Jersey City. Like, just seeing, you know, they don't want to ask that question and be wrong. And then I look at them like, so are you do I accuse you of rapism now? Or like the thing that always like kind of like I guess tips me off is um, I guess it's the fact that I wear a hat in every single video, and it's just the Art Kent effect where if I don't have the hat, it's like parry the platter put like that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But um, I start talking, and because I literally talk the exact same way I do in videos as I do in real life, that's usually what gives me away. And if it's me talking about animals or something, oh yeah, that's a dead one. That's a rap. Yeah, then they'll recognize me off of that, off my voice, and that's what's always really funny.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

So I I, you know, you said for a long time you live with your with your mom. What is how does she see this? Uh your because I'm sure most parents want to have their children have like the typical job that they can, you know, rely on, and it's nine to five. Like I think that's usually what parents want for their kids. This is very unusual. Um, what did your mom what did your mom think initially and what does she think now?

SPEAKER_01 19:53

So it's really funny that you even mentioned that because originally I thought exactly what you just said. I figured uh she'd be the type that'd be like, okay, that's nice, but you did not go to college to like put videos on the internet. Like I didn't even think she knew what a tiki top would be. But um, so I would uh I would just record in my room in the morning before people would be awake. And uh yeah, I just didn't tell them about it because uh yeah, I didn't feel like I just didn't want to explain it. But then when like the video started like getting out there, you know, I started thinking, you know, uh the other shoe is gonna drop eventually. But you know, I I kept putting it off. The same thing I did with my girlfriend, honestly. And one day, uh who was it? I think it was like my aunt that was like, Oh yeah, your son's doing pretty well on social media. And she was like, Oh, easy enough. I think I was selling merch at the time. So she was like, Oh yeah, congratulations on your son selling merch. He's really and she was like, I I don't even remember. I think she pretended to understand what was happening, and then she got off the phone. She was like, You want to explain this? And uh, no, she was like, she was really supportive, honestly, especially because again, it's something that's so like true to me. I imagine if I was doing something else on social media and I was kind of making a fool out of myself, yeah, the reaction would be a little bit different. But um, me talking about animals the exact same way you've heard me talk about them for like as long as I've been alive, because I'm I live, you know, um, I felt like she was pretty proud that I had like uh take been able to take that path. And um it also probably helped that by the time she found out that I was pretty like established, not just on TikTok, on YouTube. So I had like physical, tangible evidence that this is something that's actually working. But ever since she's been like my number one fan, she tells me all the time. Like she goes through my comment section, she reads all the comments, she's trying to watch every single video. Uh that's why I like mention her. I like mention her in the videos all the time, just because I know she's gonna see it. So uh yeah, her and my father as well. They've both been uh really supportive. But it was really funny when they found out because yeah, like it was it was like uh my secret identity had gotten like uh leaked.

Simple Thumbnails That Still Win

SPEAKER_00 21:54

So that was that was that was a feeling that I had. That's hilarious, and it does sound like you're close to that. Which is great, especially if you're like mentioning uh your parents or in a video, which is I think most graders would stay away from. They're like, I don't want my mom to see this, but you're doing great content, so it's awesome. Um, I want to um let's uh let's talk a little bit about your unusual thumbnails. So when you look at like successful YouTube channels, their thumbnails don't look like yours. Yours look very simple. You'll eat you'll even do things that we say at Vitik you probably shouldn't do, like red text. Like you do all the things that would be, quote, wrong with a thumbnail, but it works. It works spectacularly. What's the uh what's the deal here? Like first of all, why do you think it works? And secondarily, why do you have thumbnails like this?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Well, one, uh, I wish I could give you this like really uh in-depth reason as to why I do it, but honestly, like when I was on YouTube, like I did not know what I was doing. So it was literally just me putting like two pictures together or just two images that already appear in my video and just putting that as a thumbnail. And uh, I mean, I always say that nature is so insane that it's better than any like any fiction you could create. So I don't really usually have to edit a thumbnail to look crazy. I can just find an actual image that showcases the animal doing something wild. Why does it work? I feel like because kind of what you said, it kind of does go against the grain. It's kind of become normalized to have these hyper-edited, uh almost professional grade thumbnails to the point where like the market seems saturated. So to have some so to have a thumbnail that's pretty as simplistic as mine is, it seems more uh what's the word? I don't want to say like honest, but I guess it seems more genuine, I guess. That's the word. Um I don't know if you know the creator uh Moist Critical or Pink. He does the same thing. I think all his thumbnails are literally just a screenshot from some point of his video. But I mean, it that's become his style and it's different from a lot of other people. You see it, you immediately identify it, you click on it. So uh I like to think uh my thumbnails do something similar. And obviously, sometimes I play around with thumbnails. I definitely use the A-B tests, and for those that are like um that don't know what that is, uh basically YouTube has a feature where if you have like multiple thumbnail uh concepts, you can essentially post all of them and it'll test them and it'll show you what kind of um, what is it? I guess what kind of click-through rate as well as the watch time each thumbnail generates for the video, and then after whatever period of time, it uh selects the one that performs the highest, and that becomes your thumbnail. So I've started doing that recently, but for the most part, I do try to keep it pretty simple with my thumbnails. Um I think an important thing, uh, this is something this is some SEO stuff that I kind of got into like uh probably in the last year, but it's just a matter of uh trying to create this curiosity gap for the viewer uh with the thumbnail, with the text in the thumbnail, and then with the title. I try to like leave the viewer with at least two different questions that they're not gonna know the answer to unless they click on my video. Yeah, and uh I've noticed that those are kind of the videos that end up performing the best. In fact, a lot, if you look at my most popular videos, some of them are literally just non-edited images with no text or anything. It's just like like I think I did a video on the deep sea and I just showed a picture of like this really freakish looking like shark statue. Yeah. There's that one. There's um there's a lot of examples of that. But uh, I feel like sometimes like less really is more. And I've learned that because I've definitely learned that on YouTube because when I would oversaturate thumbnails, they didn't really do that well. Because you also have to remember if you're working off a screen that's like as big as the one I'm looking into right now, people are only gonna see like one sixteenth of that like on their phone or even on their laptop. So yeah, I definitely think less is more, and I think that's something that uh well that's accidentally worked for me because I I wasn't really even aware that I was doing that in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

So I mean, in a way, you're doing thumbnails wrong. I and I don't say that to be disrespectful, but but you're you're crushing it while doing that, which is crazy. So it's it's something I wanted to talk about. And your your titles, though, I think are better than your thumbnails are because you have really interesting titles. So, for example, uh Why We Owe Vulture on Steroids an Apology, which I don't even know what that means, but I I I see this picture, I'm like, my gosh, that's a huge Vulture. I need to click on that. And there you go. Curiosity gap. Exactly. How Crows gave Earth's Biggest City the middle finger. I'm confused, but it the picture, it's great. Like you have these very relatable titles that still have the curiosity and stuff. And how long do you take to come up with your titles and like how much of that is part of the process before you shoot, or do you do it after? Like, how what's your process? Tell us your process from the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Honestly, a lot longer than I would care to admit. But honestly, that's um usually uh see, I feel like I brought a lot of TikTok principles over to YouTube. So with TikTok, I would kind of think about not more so the topic, but what would be like the craziest like uh opening line, or I guess in that case that would be the title, but what would be like the craziest opening line? And I kind of come to view YouTube videos that way where I like take a bunch of concepts and try to think of like what would be the elevator pitch version of this uh video in a couple sentences or even one sentence. So I'll kind of have those. But then when it's time to like me post a video, like it's usually the first and last step for me. I kind of finalize what title I want to go through. I'll write a whole bunch of uh ideas down. I try to figure out what like would be the most eye-catching on my end. I even use this tool called uh uh what's it called? I think it's thumbs.tv, something like that, where you can essentially you can put whatever thumbnail that uh you're planning on using, you can put the title and it'll show you what your thumbnail and title looks like in different forms too, whether it's on your phone, whether it's on somebody's uh main page, on um on a YouTube homepage. So I try to do that and I see okay, I try to put myself in like the the headspace of the viewer and think, what would I like be most likely to click on? And there have been times where I thought I had a good idea, thought I had a good thumbnail, put it on there, and I was like, uh that doesn't really hit the way I thought. So yeah, it's actually something I do think about a lot because again, ultimately it's a it's not that's not the content, but it is how you get people into the door. That's how you get people to like click on the video, and that kind of is like uh the most important thing because no click, no view, no nothing. So exactly that. I'd say that's the ends up being the first and last step, and it often ends up being where I get deadlocked the most because you have so many options, and sometimes you just think, man, this this you spend all this time on a video, and the title and thumbnail could just make or break it. But you know, these days I kind of just have fun with the titles, um, as as you've obviously seen. And those are the titles that usually do the best too.

Titles Storytelling And Long Form Focus

SPEAKER_00 28:28

So absolutely. And by the way, if you're listening and you're like, that sounds like a really cool tool. Turns out we have that same tool and have had it for years. You can check it out. There's a link in the description below. Uh, check out BidIQ. Now, I also noticed that you have wildly popular shorts, because of course you came from shorts, uh, you know, a short uh form content background, but you haven't uploaded in four years any shorts on this main channel. Why?

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Honestly, I feel like I've as I've like grown on YouTube, I kind of create this separation between like the short form content that I do on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and the long form content that I do on YouTube, where uh YouTube is strictly for like kind of video essays, uh kind of like these short form, these shorter documentaries. Um and I don't know. I mean, I get it would make a lot of sense for me to put shorts on there, which is because I always tell people that are like starting out, like shorts are like the cheat code to channel growth. But I feel like um I don't know. I don't like really changing too much of a formula that's been proven to work. So, you know, I don't I don't really uh maybe that's something that I do in the future, or maybe I like make a separate channel and put my shorts there. But for the most part, I kind of want to keep my long form where my long form's at, and then the shorts are um, and then the shorts are like uh where they are. And also, and this isn't even the reason I did it, but like I just thought of this quote. I think uh I think Denzel said it to Michael B. Jordan, and he essentially was telling him to kind of limit his own self-exposure to like people. And his logic was, well, if they see you Monday through Friday, why would they pay money to see you again on Saturday? And I guess that kind of works here too, where if you're constantly seeing like uh my shorts are and everything, um maybe you're not as likely, maybe you don't have that same sense of urgency when you see that I've uploaded. And I think that works on my channel where I have an upload schedule of about every other week or at the or I've at the very least uh twice a month. So I don't know, maybe me adding shorts would uh help me in terms of like engagement, maybe it wouldn't, but uh for the most part, I I feel like I'm in a good place right now, and I kind of like having that separation.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

I mean, you you're you're averaging over a million views on a video, so I'm not complaining. I'm just saying I just find it interesting. Um, but you can't argue with your success, which is great. Tell me what are some of the things from when you first got on YouTube to now that you've learned that you're like, oh man, I didn't know that coming in, and now it's like locked in with who you are as a content creator.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Uh so um it's actually funny. So the problem that I I kind of even alluded to this earlier. I didn't think I'd be like entertaining or engaging for a long period of time. So I thought I'd just run out of things to say, and it was literally the opposite, where I could really just keep talking for like ever. So I kind of at first it was like a lot of stream of consciousness, and I guess that's why the videos came out a lot faster. Because uh really I would just uh I could have a video idea on Monday, just start writing right there, and obviously researching while I'm going, making sure I'm not uh making sure I'm fact-checking myself, and then have a video ready on Friday. But these days I'm a lot more intentional. Um, I think the the just the uh the art of uh storytelling is something that's um I don't want to say a lost art, but it's something people kind of overlook when making these like YouTube videos. I always try to like to have like an overarching narrative that kind of gives you where it almost gives you like a reward for sticking with the entire video. There's always going to be some type of payoff. So um yeah, just trying to hone in my uh skills, my um skills in uh storytelling, that's something that's a big thing. Uh also like the B-roll. I'm incredibly like B-roll heavy. I don't really for the most part, I don't go out and like shoot any uh of my own stuff, but um for the most part I was kind of just going by uh oh, I'm talking about this, let me just find whatever clip is like applicable. But now again, I'm more intentional with like what kind of clips I include or when, or just I guess there's like a certain rhythm that the videos tend to have, and being more mindful of the rhythm, that's kind of uh that's kind of something I've really honed in on. Um and it's also a lot of fun, you know, when I when I get to kind of flex uh the alliteration or the double entendres, that's always that's always fun. And it's always reassuring to hear comments kind of praising that.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

So yeah, yeah, I mean you're very well spoken. You're very well spoken, and you definitely pronounce the pronounce things in your videos that I could never pronounce. I see you, I see you pronounce them and I see the word on the screen. I'm like, I don't know how you figured out how to say that word. I can't figure it out. Uh, but it's really interesting, and you definitely know yourself. It's a different thing than like someone just reading an obvious script and obviously there's no connection. You can tell that you know the thing, that you're connected to what you're talking about. So I think it brings this genuine nature across uh across the camera, which I think is super important. People don't talk enough about that, I think.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

I appreciate that. Well, um actually, yeah, I was asked that recently, and I think what works is that I kind of do it in reverse where people write what they're gonna say. I say it out loud and then I kind of just write it, which is why the scripts end up taking me so long, because it's like me, um, regardless of like what my familiarity is with like a topic, I'll kind of research it and then I'll kind of just talk to myself like a psychopath and kind of figure out that's kind of how you figure out the flow and like the the the rhythm or like where you're gonna go with like this story, but then I'll like say it like section by section and then I'll just write it. And or sometimes even and then even then while I'm recording, sometimes I like do a complete like about phase and I like kind of what's it called in football? Like an audible basically, where I say something else and I'm like, wait, I was kind of I was kind of cooking there. So I'll find I'll just end up pulling that thread. And honestly, those have been some of my most successful videos where I kind of like throw the script away, like and it's not not even really even a script at this point, it's more like a guideline that's set to keep me on track and make sure I hit on all the points I want to hit on. But for the most part, once I like turn the camera on and I'm in front of the green screen, I kind of I kind of just give myself like the freedom to just go and just try stuff.

Copyright Stock Footage And Editors

SPEAKER_00 34:17

I love that. I love that so much. Let's talk about clips because we have a lot of creators who try to use clips and don't really understand like copyright and like how much can you use. And what did you learn in using uh clips on YouTube for your videos? Like what is there like a magic amount of time that you use, or do you reach out to some of the creators ahead of time? What is your process for that?

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Oh, yeah. In the beginning, I had no idea. Well, obviously I know what copyright is, but I feel like I was pretty reckless with the way I was like uh using it just because I was like taking like the same like approach that I had with TikTok, where you know, I would like uh if I'm talking about like rattlesnakes, I'll go on Google Images, rattlesnakes see like some of the crazier images or whatever is like most uh whatever makes the most sense uh compared to what I'm talking about, and I would use that. But you know, you got you definitely have to be a lot more mindful on YouTube. There are there have been a couple times where uh I thought what I was doing was transformative, but then you know you receive a copy strike, and then you kind of have to adjust that way. So these days I have a lot of uh stock footage uh uh subscriptions. I have story blocks, i stock, I have pond five shutter stock, get's obviously everyone has Getys. I also have Science Photo Library, and recently I have uh News Flare. So anybody that's uh keeping track, that's that's about like seven. I I oscillate between all of those. It actually makes it a lot easier because uh you can have a bunch of tabs with all these uh these all these uh sites open and you kind of just funnel through and see what kind of uh what kind of uh clips make the most sense to use. And uh these days I have an editor and um a lot of times they'll help me source clips as well. Uh I do have to do admittedly, I do have to do a better job of like because for the most part, even though I have an editor, I'm still usually the one uh supplying like maybe 90% of like the clips. And I probably could like scale back a little bit and kind of let editors be editors. Right. Um I feel like um yeah, it's kind of hard to like uh outsource a whole lot of responsibility when you've been like cradling this baby for as long. Yeah. But um, yeah, and also I'm like very particular about like what kind of stock footage or or images or even graphics. Now that I've obviously editors that can like do graphics in ways I couldn't before, uh just what I want uh when I want them. Um I feel like in that case I could be well, I guess it's the best best of both worlds. I feel like I could be demanding in what I'm like uh in like the product I'm getting back. But at the same time, a lot of the work is already done by the time like I'm asking you to do something. So, you know, it's kind of like uh it's kind of like the best of both worlds, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

But yeah, that's do you think that's something definitely do you think moving forward it's important for you to let go more? Or do you think you still always want to be maybe overly indexed on being very uh not even prescriptive, but just being part of the process. Do you think you ever will be able to let go at all?

Why He Avoids AI In Research

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Uh that that's the thing. I have to keep telling myself that letting go isn't even completely letting go. Because at the end of the day, bro, like uh I'm still I'm still it's still my words, it's still uh I'm still like showing you, teaching you about the animals through kind of my lens. Um and I'm still gonna be I still supply most of the uh where I'm still like uh basically I have a Google Doc where I like have the script and I kind of hyperlink uh here's where I want this stock, here's where I want that stock. So on some level, I could be a little bit more malleable where I leave certain blanks in and I'm like, okay, I at this point I kind of trust you to fill in the blanks. And uh I feel like I'm kind of getting there with this uh newer editor that I'm with. I feel like I've been with him since uh about since January of this year. So still relatively new in the process, but um I think that is important to kind of like uh kind of like take your hands off a little bit, especially uh especially if I want to make the jump that uh I want to in the future where I'm kind of doing more stuff like out in the field. Those have been some of my favorite videos, regardless of performance, being able to actually go out there and be able to physically show things that are happening um instead of like you know being from behind a green screen. I feel like there's a level of um, I guess, authenticity that's you just can't really match when you're constantly just behind the green screen. So being able to mix it up and and other than that, other than like just the content, uh just being able to provide like real world value to like a lot of these like sanctuaries and these places that are so committed to conservation, like that's kind of like I feel like that's the end goal for a lot of us, um, a lot of us uh animal science creators, and there's a lot of us. Uh, I think you mentioned that there aren't a lot of people that do it necessarily like me. And I would say that that's true, but I feel like in the last maybe five years, there's been a pretty big explosion of uh creators that make content like uh I don't want to say similar to mine because I feel like there were creators before me, but like content kind of within that wheelhouse. Yeah. So uh yeah, I feel like being able to have a real world uh impact kind of does require me staying getting off the computer a little bit. Yeah, uh getting on the world. So yeah, you're absolutely right. You you do kind of have to take your hands off a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

So how uh I mean, we're in a world now where AI is taking over everything. Um, and it can definitely it's scary. I'm gonna be honest. There's parts of it that are very scary. But uh there are tools at the time at the moment. I mean, they might be our bosses soon, but they're they're tools at the moment. Do you use any? Uh do they help you with research? Because they can save a lot of time for research, if nothing else.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

They can, but honestly, yeah, that's something I just avoid just completely, honestly. Um I'm not the really the type of person that's gonna like uh kind of lecture people against using AI, but I do feel like if I'm gonna keep talking, uh trying to spread this message of conservation while also like uh using AI, that's you know, it's kind of this juxtaposition that doesn't really like it kind of leaves people with a bad taste in your mouth. Um I feel like there have been times where I've accidentally like included AI in my videos or you know, with my previous editor, he kind of used AI and I was kind of like uh what are you doing? Yeah, yeah. It's kind of that's not but uh in terms of like the video making process, I feel like I'm pretty old fashioned. Uh I don't like typing things up. I like writing, I like the I like the pencil and the notepad. Um and again, it's stuff that I would be researching kind of like on my own. Obviously, it's kind of like I like I I do treat it as a career as a job, so there is like a sense of obligation to getting things right. But I don't know. I feel like AI, if I were to do that, it would kind of take the soul out of it a little bit. And that's when it would really start to feel like a job. So even if you kind of ignore the ethics, the possible ethics of using AI, uh, I don't really like it in terms of like um like just within uh as as a creative, you know. I just uh and plus if I'm using AI as research, you know, p if somebody accuses me of my scripts being AI, what would really be my defense, you know? So yeah, and that that that's like that's probably the that's probably the one uh comment that would probably like really get to me. Like if somebody says, yo, was this the script made by AI? And I'm like, how dare you? Yeah, right? Right? So yeah, try uh I don't use I try not to use it in my process like at all. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Okay. Um what is the next level of casual geographic? Like what's the next thing? Do you expand beyond that? Do you start another channel? Do what are other things are in the wheelhouse that you aren't even maybe tapping into that you want to get to the next like what even is the next level for you?

SPEAKER_01 41:27

So for a while, I never really had an answer to that question just because I never really thought of like a pathway forward. I was really just winging it for the longest. But um, now that I've kind of been on this platform for as long as I have been, I think um I think the next step would be like kind of like I said, being able to have more of a real-world impact, being able to be out in the field. Um, like I want to mention this elephant video that I did where I went to this elephant uh sanctuary, Elephant Nature Park in Shangmai, Thailand, and I was able to one just showcase how I really think that's like the best elephant sanctuary on earth. I can't sing their praises enough. But also, like the timing was so crazy. Uh I went there um September of 2024, and they had a really bad flood the very next month, like in October. Like, and that's an area that's like used to that kind of thing. So this was like like an anomaly. They lost a couple elephants, which was obviously tragic. But because I was able to put that video out, I think uh maybe a month later, we were able to generate like a lot of donations for this place um during a time where they really needed it, and they were super grateful. And um honestly that felt really good. Just it would have felt good without the donations, but to have that added, that that was a really like that was a really fulfilling feeling. So to be able to do more of that and be able to have more of like a tangible impact, I'd say that'd be the next level of casual geographic, you know. Everyone, a lot of people say, Oh, you know, National Geographic, you need to hire this man, Discovery and all this. And you know, I was into it, but now I think like, I mean, this is kind of the show, you know. Like, I don't know what kind of freedom I would have if I was kind of answering to like executives or something like that. So I really do like the freedom that I have. So to answer your question, I think the future is just seeing just how far I can like take this, uh, take this platform and then use it as like a springboard for other opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Do you see other creative opportunities that outside of what you're currently doing that are of interest to you? Not not to do with animals at all. Is there anything else creative you would want to do that you're not currently doing? Creatively that I would like to do. Uh, you said uh other than animals? Other than animals, outside of that.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Yeah, that's where it gets uh, I'm not even sure. Just because uh I don't think my personality has really been, again, to like put myself out there. I mean, with at being able to do it through um through the lens of like talking about animals, that's something that's so natural to me that I'm able to kind of bypass that. But if I were to to do something else, like um, you know, I've had people say, Oh, you used to do like a fitness channel, and I'm like, I don't really want to do that. I I don't. It's random or something or something like that. That just because like it would be forced, and I really do feel like I think the good thing about TikTok was you saw a lot of the best creators got there completely by accident because it was completely authentic. So if I was trying to do something else and it wasn't like natural, well, you would see it, and uh yeah, I don't I don't think uh it would kind of lose the heart a little bit. So yeah, outside of animals, I mean, I don't know, maybe like fun little stuff, or like maybe you know, hopping on other people's podcasts, which has been a lot of yeah, nope. But um that for myself, yeah. No, I I think if it's not involving animals, I don't really think it's for me, to be honest. Oh, okay.

Starting Over With A New Channel

SPEAKER_00 44:36

All right. Well, that's gonna make this last question a little bit uh interesting, then, because I ask every creator if you have if you're a brand new creator, because this is for the people that are listening, they're new creators, they're like, I still need to figure out how to do this. He's got he's doing thumbnails wrong, and he and he's and he's being himself and it's still working. Like, I want that. Of course, we all want that. So I'm gonna throw, I'm gonna throw you in the mix. You don't have access to casual geographically. You're a brand new creator right now. You're not gonna do anything about animals. You have to do a brand new channel. Give me what the topic is about and the first three videos, and tell me that process of how you would research it.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Okay. Wow. And you said uh nothing to do with animals, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:14

Yeah, you gotta you gotta you gotta try something else because that's your strength. I want to take that away. I'm like, you're like Superman, I'm giving you credit more.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Okay, let me think about this. Well, the advice I always give creators is like the best thing you can possibly do is like marry your two interests and then make content based off of that. You know, obviously I love animals, but I also really like making people laugh. I I had a short stint where I like wanted to be a comedian, and then somebody told me that's the best joke I'm ever gonna tell. And that's how I still don't do that right there. Yeah, he got me. I remember. I'm not gonna drop your name, but I I remember I remember you saying that. But um, yeah, so I'll probably still keep the comedic. Okay, and it can't be about animals. What other interests do I have? I literally just said I wouldn't do like fitness, but um also you know what I would do basketball content. I I'm a huge basketball fan, I love basketball. Uh, I was still am been been obsessed since pretty much high school. So yeah, it would be comedic, it would be basketball videos, and I guess it would be um, yeah, well, just one, how to improve, but also like injury management and stuff like that, because I've had my share of like injuries almost all by basketball. Like I love basketball, but that girl don't love me sometimes. So yeah, if I could do like videos, yeah, actually, yeah, because I feel like a lot of people do basketball training videos, people that are better than me, but me teaching you how to like repair your knee or how to improve like ankle mobility and things like that, the fitness aspect, then you know what? Yeah, I think I would go into something like that.

Where To Follow And Final Advice

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Nice. It was cool to hear you real time kind of go, okay. Well, this, okay, but I actually like that. I think that's helpful for people who are trying to figure out their niche. Like we, like I said, I told you off camera that or off uh off air that we have people who are listening to the podcast, haven't started their channel yet, and they're still trying to figure it out. So you just literally heard an incredibly successful YouTuber go through the steps of creating a channel from scratch, and boom. And I, you know, from the subject matter that I just heard, that actually has something to it, especially with your personality in it. So all that being. He kind of caught me off guard a little bit. No, I didn't tell him. I was like, we're gonna cook him on this one. But no, he came through. I appreciate that. Listen, if you want to see Casual Geographic, of course you can find it on YouTube. There'll be links in the description and in the show notes. Uh, I can't thank you enough. This was amazing and fun. You're such a fun guy. Um, where would people be able to actually I the thing is, like, I know you get a lot of comments and stuff, so probably reaching out to you is like kind of an impossibility. But I guess if people see you out and about, is it okay to say, hey, can I get a picture? Uh you know, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

No, of course, of course. Like, yeah, no, that's always been really like I said, people have been super like respectful. And I that's something I really love about the education uh science community. They have been so positive. Like, even when I make mistakes, even when I get things wrong, all you have to do is just be a human and open up to it. And they they almost respect you even more for that. So um, yeah, I obviously always approach me. Uh you feel free to approach me. Uh ask just you know, be polite, you know. And if I'm like eating dinner with my lady or with my mom or something like that, then you know, maybe wait till we're done. But wait for me. And uh yeah, and also I uh I try to like and respond to like Instagram DMs, but I I can't promise that it's gonna that it's gonna get there. But you know, it's it's free to try. Absolutely. Shoot your shot.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Well, of course, we thank you for joining us so much. And if you want to learn more about them, like I said, we got uh links in the show notes and in the end of the uh video here. As a matter of fact, um I have another video of this coming up right here that you should check out. We'll see y'all in the next one.