Master Packaging Or Get Ignored

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We talk with Sean Cannell from Think Media about what AI is changing on YouTube and why some creators are getting demonetized even when their channels look “successful”. We walk through the practical moves that keep you original, paid, and mentally steady when views dip, policies shift, and burnout hits. 
• demonetization in the AI era and what “interchangeability” signals to YouTube 
• building a distinct channel brand even when using AI tools 
• diversifying revenue so AdSense is not the only lifeline 
• affiliate marketing as a realistic first income stream 
• review specific products to earn trust, rank in search, and create long-tail commissions 
• normal reasons views drop, plus the resilience mindset to recover fast 
• choosing education vs entertainment to reach full-time faster 
• beginner mistakes that stall growth, especially titles, thumbnails, and lack of audience research 
• avoiding the trap of outsourcing your voice and thinking to AI 
• burnout, health safeguards, and how delegation keeps a business running 

Transcript

Burnout Warning And AI Authenticity

SPEAKER_01 0:00

About two months ago, I found myself in the emergency room 24 hours later when I was going into emergency surgery. It combined stress, fatigue, and running at a pace. People are doing is they're outsourcing their authenticity, originality, and their thinking to AI. And you're going to then just sound like AI as opposed to sounding like yourself, master packaging or get ignored. She's 77. No social media following. Zero followers on any platform. Post her first video gets 37,000 views. Middle of 2026, the algorithm can you can still, you're still one video away. You can still break out.

Meet Sean Cannell And Think Media

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Hey, welcome back to the only podcast that isn't afraid to bring another podcast on the podcast. I'm Travis, and I'm here with an incredibly special guest, an OG, the guy. Think Media. When you think think media, you think Sean Cannell rhymes with channel. Welcome back, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Travis, so fired up to be hanging out with you. Thanks for having me back and uh excited to be um, you know, hanging out with everybody listening right now, ready to crush.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

If you're new here, we help you uh grow your YouTube channel through talking to different people, and this is like the perfect person to talk to because Sean has been in the grind forever. We'll give you a quick little background of him if you're not familiar with him, and then we'll get into everything else. But if you're new here, of course, you can hit that subscribe button. If you're listening to the audio only podcast, there will be links in the show notes so that you can follow along. All right, Sean, let's get right into it. Let's not uh let's not dilly dally. I do want to tell you something I haven't told you. I saw you a couple weeks ago in Seattle uh to invite you on the podcast. And uh, you know, we've seen each other for many years, and I've been uh I think anyone who's been on YouTube over the last 10 or so years at some point has either come across one of your videos or been inspired by your videos or something like that, right? But what I haven't told you, uh, and I wanted to wait for the podcast, is this podcast, um, when I first took it from the audio podcast, which has been around for like seven or eight years, you might remember Jeremy Vest, like he's the one who like started it. Uh, when I took over the video portion, I think which I tell most creators, you should have like a target channel that you kind of look at to kind of not take everything from, but go, okay, this me, this is working. What can I do to make mine like that? And that's been the Think Media Podcast channel. Um, we actually did a little contest at the beginning of this podcast. If anyone could figure out that that's where we were kind of taking our inspiration from. And you have just crushed it over there. You guys are just absolutely destroying it everywhere. And I just want to thank you for uh for joining us today, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Well, I appreciate the kind words and feedback. You know, we just love uh experimenting and trying things. And so um, I'm glad that that's valuable and super excited to talk about YouTube and strategy and all that stuff today.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

For for the two people who may not know who you are or where you came from, give us all just a little bit of information about your background.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yeah, um, I'm just uh a YouTube geek that's been obsessed with YouTube for really a couple decades now. I started doing video production for my local church in 2003, two years before YouTube started. And the youth pastor handed me a Canon HV30 camera that had mini DV tapes in it, and you'd have to capture minute for minute through Firewire the footage that you filmed on there. And I had Adobe premiere, not cloud, but uh creative suite on CDR, you know, discs. And uh I've been doing video since then. So that's 23 years in video and uh you know almost 20 years on YouTube. The first YouTube channel I started was for that local church. And so yeah, just love the power of YouTube and have had the chance to be a freelancer, an editor, a shooter. Um now, you know, a YouTube coach, started multiple different channels, and then have helped others do the same in all kinds of niches from business to DIY. And it's it's just this whole creator economy thing is wild. And I've just stayed in it for quite a while. You know what I mean? So it's like gray in the beard these days. Uh, you know, and YouTube is 20 years old, but YouTube's not old enough to drink legally in the United States quite yet. So I it's still early in YouTube. And I that's not just my opinion. I think that future is bright on YouTube. They have such a head start, they're such leaders in technology and infrastructure and mind share. So future looks bright on YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Just for those who, again, who don't know, of course, Think Media, the original the main channel, 3.4 uh million subscribers, 3,000 videos, which is incredible. And the Think Media Podcast channel, another 1,700 videos. I don't know how you go from one to the next. So many videos, so much content. And we thank you for everything you do. But let's talk about what's affecting content creators here and now.

Demonetization Stories In The AI Era

SPEAKER_00 4:28

There's been a lot of talk about two major things. And we even asked Renee Richie on the podcast about this a while back, which would be inauthentic content and then demonetization. These are the two things that over the last maybe month and a half have been hot and heavy, and it's on creators' minds. Some creators have been directly affected, others are just scared by it. Let's start first with the demonetization thing. We can talk about some of the channels we've seen demonetized and your thoughts in general, because I believe a lot of this comes from the age of AI. For better or worse, um, a lot of these channels are either being rightfully or wrongfully targeted because of AI, whether it be in their content or a lot of people who are saying that, you know, that um YouTube themselves are using AI to wrongfully uh demonetize uh their channels. Um, I believe that there's a gray area. I don't think YouTube's trying to go out of the way to make it harder for content creators. It's just that there's a lot out there that they do need to kind of uh demonetize. But what are your thoughts on this whole thing? What have you seen?

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yeah, well, this has hit close to home because there's a couple stories in our community. One um was a faith-based channel that was making over $30,000 a month in YouTube ad revenue that um got completely demonetized. Um, the channel was not taken down, but monetization was removed. And they were actually, they're based in India and have a team editing videos and using AI, AI, you know, voice and scripts, et cetera, but also a ton of creativity behind their content. And so absolutely wild. And they had diversified by also creating some of their own products and things, um, but that was the majority of their revenue. So what we learned through that process was probably one of the most important words, which is this word of interchangeability. So, interchangeability was okay, what was the issue with this channel? Because YouTube's actually fine if you use AI, like if it's disclosed or how's it used? Um, at the end of the day, you know, if you think about AI channels that are completely generated, especially leaning cartoonish or whatever, it's really just animation. Animation is now available to any creator, even if they're solo and by themselves, if they learn the skills. But all that to say was interchangeability was this, and this is what was fascinating, is if I could be watching your content, but it could be interchanged with hundreds or thousands of other channels, and I wouldn't know what channel it was coming from, that's when we start knowing that like it doesn't, it it doesn't have a unique brand to it. Interchangeability has come up. And I've seen that a couple of times, as well as from an email from YouTube. So, so all that to say is I think the lesson and takeaway was, yeah, is it overreach? I think it, I think it is. I think, of course, AI is scanning to try to catch AI. Um, and then these channels have a chance to reapply, but what they started to do is even try to take down some videos because they were given some direction and started to try to think about how do we create uh more of a unique brand, even if we're using AI tools, even if we're creating content that um, you know, even as AI avatars or whatever, can this channel be? It makes me think of Microsoft Word back in the day, Clippy. A lot of us probably, if you ever use Word, Clippy was a character. So what we've seen from synthesizing advice from YouTube, but what we're encouraging creators to do as well, is to think about like, you know, all these intellectual property animation channels are distinct. And so if you can brand your channel in some way, and there's many faceless channels before all these AI tools made it more accessible that have done this, that's a big one. The one other one was uh a channel called uh it's an exam prep channel, and it's created a utility to really help people prep for real estate exams in different states. Now they've spawned multiple channels. It's a really great niche. It's very value-based, it's very human behind it, but AI is kind of the whole process AI voiceover scripts, fact-checking the um exam prep, and then voiceover 11 labs, the full deal. Well, then again, they got demonetized and at first thought their traffic was affected as well, their views, but turns out the channel's still demonetized, but it also leads to a software they built that uh lets you pay for like kind of more premium level of your exam prep education. So at the current, you know, at the current point, they've actually seen traffic go back up. It doesn't seem like it's affected traffic at all. They can reapply for monetization later. And right now, though, YouTube can still bring views.

Interchangeability And Building A Real Brand

SPEAKER_01 8:56

So I think there's another big lesson that if you could diversify away from platform dependence, there's that spectrum between your channel being taken down or maybe you just not being eligible for monetization. But what's your business model? And so these are ongoing developing stories, and we'll actually probably know in the next 30, 60, 90 days as we start seeing. I've heard many stories where even if a channel is maybe demonetized, they do appeal it and then it gets, you know, repealed or they get they get back into the program. So I think it's just it's an interesting time for sure. But those are a couple like very close-to-home stories of some things we've seen.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

That's, I mean, I think of a at some point when you make a certain amount of money, you start building out your company. And when you talk about that faith-based channel with $30,000 a month, which you know goes up and down during the course of a year, but you have a somewhat of a baseline of what you're trying to do. So you build your company out, you start to bring in editors, all these other things. Now you're a company, essentially, right? And now someone else, another, another company that you're kind of um you're dependent on, is saying, now, you know, we know you've been doing this for millions upon millions of views, but nah, we're cutting off the spigot now. And now we're not gonna feed you anymore. And that it must be a very scary moment for that channel. Um, how have they, how have they kind of did they get first of all, did they get monetized again? And what have they done since?

SPEAKER_01 10:11

They haven't reapplied yet. What they've done is tried to clean up their library. Uh, they're going through, I think it was 90 days or something before they could reapply. And then um, I've heard different timelines that are given to individual channels. So, what they've done is they've combed back through to look at interchangeability to see, okay, and I mean this is a very gray area, you know, because what are we talking about? AI helping write scripts. Is it and I and I think AI will also get smarter. Like if something is 99% AI spun, can AI see that versus AI is assisted, but there's some original thought. I mean, kind of who knows what's being scanned or being flagged behind the scenes. So they're kind of going through to clean up their library from perhaps lower effort. And this is me speculating and just uh from my updates on the situation, but just, you know, things that are maybe less interchangeable to start thinking about how do we write, create, and brand future content. But the cool thing is again, they also just tripled down on um, you know, it's faith-based. So they created some like ebooks and they created some like deeper things, which is real, has produced real revenue. It was only a portion of their other up, that's of their other revenue that AdSense was paying, but um, that's what's sustaining them. And so that's kind of what can carry them through, uh, which is I think a powerful lesson. No matter what's revenue stream, this is an unconventional career path. You know what I mean? It really is. So it's so actually, you know, principle three is uh if it's a personal finance principle, I've learned as a creator, is like live on less than you make, you know, store, store away for a rainy day and just be prepared for the the ups and downs because sometimes you could be riding on a a wave of views that just might not be that consistent forever. So if you're more stable through uh not just the high highs or any lows that come your way. So that diversified income stream has kept both of these channels going.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

That's super important. And one of the things I've been trying to uh show with some of the guests I've had on recently is that this is a business. It's not just uh a place that you can express yourself artistically. Of course, it is like obviously content creation, be an artist and definitely enjoy what you do. But if you want to do this full-time, if you want this to be your job, diversifying is kind of important. Um, just point and case in point, we're seeing these channels get demonetized left, right, and center. And these are, again, not channels that just didn't make monetization in the first place. They were successfully operating. Um, what do you say to the small content creators just getting started, they're just getting monetized? What's the first way that they could monetize their channel in a way that's realistic? And of course, we have different types of niches, so it may not be exactly uh for every single person listening, but I think you can gain something from uh this thought.

Affiliate Marketing From Day One

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah, my favorite way to start making money on YouTube, where basically you can monetize your channel from day one when you start before you've uploaded videos, is affiliate marketing. And um, it's not just a theory, it's actually how I originally made part-time and then full-time income was talking about tech and cameras, and then having those links in the description. And if someone clicked my custom link and made a purchase, I made a commission. But what's wild about affiliate marketing is you could be an affiliate for Bass Pro Shop, Dick's Sporting Goods, Target, Walmart, Nordstrom Clothing, um, all kinds of software companies, um, SaaS products, any products and service you services you basically use, even events, even sometimes other people's coaching programs and all kinds of things. So I think affiliate marketing is incredible because number one, oftentimes you have to get approved, but there isn't some, you know, you don't need a thousand subscribers or four thousand hours of watch time. You could just apply. And a lot of times, like I think even Amazon Associates typically just approves you instantly, and then you just have to get enough qualifying sales within um this opening window of time. So if you hit the gas and you're actively creating content and strategically creating content, and you sign up for some of these, you know, and

Product Reviews That Rank Long-Term

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I'll give you a story. It's like, of course, results are not typical, and we're not guaranteeing results on the podcast, but I think of Jacqueline the Wild Floridian, um, shoots gardening content in Florida for people in Florida or with tropical environment type of um environments they might be in. She films on her iPhone, um, edits on her phone, and sometimes does like a 30-day challenge in her garden and all kinds of different types and styles of content. But one of the styles of content she does on her channel is uh we've named RSP, review specific products. RSP, review specific products, and it'd be using the strategy and it's identifying something that really ties into your channel, that really serves your audience, ties into your channel, and maybe has like more lucrative or better terms, and just becomes this win-win-win for your audience, you. So she found this company, totally separate website that sells direct, that sells raised metal garden beds, specifically ones that you know don't rust and can handle moisture because that's going to be important in general, and especially for that climate. So she tried them out. She ordered one and then made a review video. And, you know, what we are obsessed with, what we call ranking. And that just means you post a video that gets views, not just when you post it, but for weeks, months, or years later. So she kind of really talked about like a, you know, kind of unboxing, let's say. And then you have like a three-month later review. How's it holding up? And like different styles. So the videos she makes about these products, these raised metal garden beds, maybe like one to three videos a year. And in her first year of making some videos with affiliate links to the description, she's doing YouTube on the side. So she's spending a few of her couple hundred bucks on her own garden. So maybe a product you purchase. Of course, early on, you can email brands. They might send you a free product or a sample unit. And you, I would encourage people, like, don't think you need to be bigger before you do it. You'd be shocked. You just got to ask. Like, email, think of think of the pitch. That's the key. It's like, think of how you're gonna pitch it, position. Like, hey, I'm gonna make you a video. And maybe if you don't have the subscribers, maybe you say, and I'd be happy to send you the product footage I shoot. Like, there's ways to add value to a brand, even with like a UGC mindset. But all that to say is, you know, the first year of doing this, she earned around $1,000 in commissions of people clicking her link, buying a raised garden bed, and then she would make 10% or 15%. And this is where you get into the nuance of things. That's actually how the website works. You can read the fine print. So she you go and you sign up, then it allows you to create custom links. And if you do a certain amount of sales volume, you get 10%. But if you hit a certain volume, it goes up to 15 on everything you've sold that month. And there's different things like that. And then they're like the average cart value they tell you is $500 because most people that are shopping for one end up buying like three. So it's these types of deals. All that to say is by the end of her second year, she had collected around $15,000. By the end of her third year, she's made $54,000 from that one affiliate program in commissions. And she just kept telling, you know, getting better at content, thinking about the videos she's posting, educating about the different garden beds, eventually having like a 12-month later review. And these videos all kind of suggest each other and they're all getting discovered, and people are clicking her links. That's crazy. It's a and she doesn't have to do returns if someone's not happy. She doesn't do customer service. She doesn't. So when I think about this whole creator economy thing, there's so many cool things we can do, like eventually make our own, launch our own products or services. And we're living in a world where you can maybe create your own SaaS, five code SaaS, or build websites, or even start some sort of an agency. You could do all kinds of different things. What I love about affiliate marketing is you could start right when you're starting as a beginner with no following. And it's also sometimes maybe you're not going to make the most money in the world, but the complexity is as simple as it gets. I think the real strategy is you you got to build your content creation skills. You need a video that gets seen. And of course, if you're building trust and credibility with the viewer, it means you're not just kind of like BSing information about something, but like you're building trust. Like I tried this. Or if you're just unboxing it, like, here's my first impressions, but you're gonna earn your credibility and trust just because of kind of not, I don't even think the video quality, but like the nuance of detail that you put into a video that adds value to the end user. I know before I make purchases the other day, I was looking for an electric grill and I found eventually decided the ninja electric grill. I know it's not very masculine to have an electric grill. Uh, you know, it's embarrassing to admit that here. But all that's to say is, you know, you're you're you're watching videos and like the quality of the video is like, oh wow, that person, I didn't I even know that they had features like that. That's a great point. Oh, they've tried a couple different versions. So if there's anything you can add value on, affiliate marketing is such a great way to honestly, Travis, it's also a great way to get views. It is underrated to jump into talking about products because a lot of times when someone doesn't know you, they don't know you yet, but they know they're searching for a product, and that's how they end up discovering you. A lot of times, a lot of the way my brand was built is because people were searching for Canon M50. They didn't know Sean Cannell yet. They're searching for a camera, and then we're like, oh, he was helpful. Oh, some good information, and like hung out for a while. So I've I've said products are influencers, meaning like they have their own influence, and you actually can build your influence by talking about products. And I've said a lot, but to land the plane, what what I also like to encourage individuals by telling Jaclyn's story is it's not like she is a product review channel, though. Like it doesn't have to be like all consuming. It could be. That's a cool niche to have, but it doesn't have to be that. Every once in a while she'll do kind of a strategic affiliate marketing video, but then she also will do like 30 days of gardening in January. Like she just does all kinds of different stuff. Like it's her channel. It's called YouTube because it's your tube. You can do it in your own way, your own style. But I think kind of product reviews and affiliate marketing is something that everybody listening to this should consider for not just building your influence, but also building your income.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

And you know, I'm glad you say that because I interviewed uh a content creator just a couple months ago who on their secondary channel has less than a thousand subscribers, has made $20,000 on affiliate sales. And it really just goes to show that if you if you have something that's just super focused on one thing, this is like spa, like the thing of the spas you can buy, the tent things. He just reviewed a bunch of those. They started being sent to him and his under a thousand subscriber channel made $20,000. There's a link, uh, you'll see it if you go to the YouTube channel. It's literally titled that. So you should go check that out. And furthermore, I think some people are like, well, I'm a vlogging channel. How can I do this? I can tell you exactly how. I literally just gave this advice to a content creator who was a vlogging channel who never really did affiliate stuff. He had a video where during kind of the cool thing about it was he was feeling nostalgic. So he went and bought one of those Canon um cameras that like spits out the like back in the day, you know, spit out the actual picture, right? Um, and I said, you know, after you spend a whole like five minutes of your video talking about this and showing, taking pictures and stuff, you could literally put an affiliate link in your description for that thing. And he was like, I didn't even think about that. He did it, and this video had already been up. So a lot of the big views were gone. And he got hundreds of dollars within just a couple of days by going and putting a link in his description. It's game changing. He his eyes were open immediately. It's like, wow, I have been missing so much. So if you're if you're in, it doesn't even matter what niche you're in. If you use specific products to accomplish what you're trying to do, put an affiliate link of those things. I know if I come to Sean's channel for you know cameras and stuff, if I see something even in his background that I think Really cool. I might want that exact thing because I trust Sean. So give me a link so I can get that exact thing. You'd be surprised at how much value you're giving to your viewers because they want to do the things that you have done. Otherwise, they wouldn't be watching your content. So I love that strategy. Super underrated. Um, I saw something on your uh podcast and I thought was really interesting because it affects just about every single content

View Drops Seasonality And Resilience

SPEAKER_00 22:22

creator. I'd love to get your feedback on this. You have a video called Why Your YouTube Views A Down and How to Fix It. Everyone goes through view cycles of lots of views and then little views. And some people are always in the little view situation. I think what is not talked about enough is that the seasons of low views, for the most part, is normal. It's part of the process of being on YouTube, but it's, I don't think it's talked about enough. Immediately, people think something is wrong. But in actual value, sometimes it's seasonality. It could be your particular uh topic is just kind of worn out, whatever. What are some of the things you've seen that make views go down that are normal? And how do you normally get around fixing those things?

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah, I mean, it's a great thing you bring up because I think that um there should be some disclaimers on like the content creator career aspiration. It's like warning may include an emotional roller coaster that makes you, you know, uneasy and sometimes sick to your stomach. Because what's interesting, especially about content, is one, you might actually get hit with a wave of high views. And what can be tough with that is like you don't necessarily know why, or one of my shorts is going viral, or one of my videos is getting views. We've heard this story over and over again. And then sometimes it's like, and that was a random video. In fact, I now I'm actually kind of double thinking. Like, I don't know if I even should have talked about that on the channel, and what do I do? And you could start being led by the a video going viral in the wrong direction. And then the reverse being, if you it actually quite literally triggers dopamine. I'm sure when you get a one out of 10, you know, it's like that's firing off the confetis flying on YouTube, and and you're you're getting this high euphoric emotional experience. And then when you get a 10 out of 10, you're like, great, took me 10 hours to edit that video, and it's a 10 out of 10 on YouTube, you know, and you and you hope to do better. So there's like a there's highs and lows. I think um, I mean that the answer to that is this word called resilience. And resilience as a human and life skill to develop as an attribute is actually how quickly we we return to baseline. So resilience, it's not even just if you have a bad day, how quickly do you recover? It's also if you have a good day, how quickly do you get back to baseline? And so for me, that's kind of what I've learned on the long journey. You know, if you take it back to 2020, these lockdowns start in March of 2020. And I'd been building ThinkBead up by myself and then eventually with other content creators that joined the channel. And the channel had grown to about 128,000 views every single day over a library of ranked videos. As soon as the lockdown started in March of 2020, the views doubled. It went to a quarter million steady, like, and so didn't do anything different. No, certainly strategically posted videos for a decade, um, but you know, could have never predicted that, didn't know that would happen. And it would, and because of the lockdowns, it also wasn't just our channel. So many creators started during that era and they experienced a certain amount of views. So when you talk about seasonality, that was almost like a global seasonality thing. Where number one, not only did you have people locked down, but they had extra time. So the consumption of online and how much people were watching online, well, that slowly trickled down over the years. Um, and you know, now it's kind of cool that we've held the line, but if I go check our real-time views, it's actually pretty much just back to what it used to be, which is A, really cool, B, like horribly uneasiness creating. You know what I mean? On the one thing, like if you don't reframe, you know, kind of what like what baseline is, or you know, even if you let it affect you. And then it's also, I think it's defining what's the scoreboard. So, you know, I as a full-time content creator that actually has hired employees, you know, part of the scoreboard is just staying in business and like making payroll. So there's absolutely so so then you start realizing views is not the only metric for that. So there's a lot of other things, but I think that's one of the biggest like things I would zoom out to say is there's gonna be seasons, and then similar stuff will happen. Like maybe you had a Lord of the Rings channel, and it was just like slow and steady, even good, but kind of small. And then Amazon Prime drops a show. You might go through a whole wave, and that wave might restart and start and change. But I think it's always being ready to reset expectations. And on the ones hand, I think what's good about that is like some people can't, they quit if the fall is too extreme. A lot of my peers have. They're like, it just social media doesn't work anymore. I'm like, no, it still works. You just had unrealistic expectations because you were used to the inflated, like kind of resetting expectations. You know, Gary Vaanderchuck started a new vlog channel for what it's worth. Some people may or may not know that person, but like kind of known as one of the bigger or biggest entrepreneur YouTube channels. Different people come and go, as is life. YouTube can sometimes kind of be like music or you know, artists and stuff, like someone's hot, someone's hot. All that's to say, I mean, it's Gary Vaynerchuk. He's got a team, he's got a staff. Well, he started this vlog channel, and I want to say his views are about 3,000 to 5,000 views of video. And and I say that, that's great, but it's like, dude, it's freaking Gary Vaynerchuk. Yeah, it's Gary V. You know what's going on. Yeah, yeah. And so I like to put it in perspective, I think we're in sort of like uh almost like a realism. He's got 6,000 subs on that channel. You know, I'm looking it up, and that's I'm sending respect his way, just saying that if you're Gary V with the best editing and a staff and all this other stuff and whatever, and he's getting 3,500 views and 5,300 views, I think he's also starting a second channel, which is an interesting topic to build up the whole book of documenting the entrepreneur journey, whatever. I think it's just something about realistic expectations, like a strong enough business model that you know your number, you know, uh numbers and you know the scoreboard. Um, and and having a resilient mindset in general that like when things are going incredible, you're still back at baseline. That's where I've tried to live. And if it's also tough, I just persevere. And how quickly can we get back to baseline? Out of our seven core values, resilient spirit is one of our core values at our company. So I think that's just a big deal for longevity as a content creator.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Yeah. It's it's so it again, uh for those who don't know Gary V is like he is go watch some of his videos, first of all. He's he's incredibly inspiring. And it is very humbling to think that someone that uh like I would even love to interview Gary Vee's is a he's a lightning in a bottle, and to think that he is struggling, or not he probably doesn't even consider struggling, but from a perspective of looking at a channel who's someone who's just straight up famous, uh, that's really, really interesting. And I think it's it really sets an expectation that just because you see a lot of channels doing tons of views, what you're seeing is the top of the iceberg. That's like the top five, 10% of all of YouTube. The 99% of YouTube is doing what you're doing or less most of the time. Um, let's talk a little bit about like getting to full-time, I think is such a I mean, they they've talked about it for years that like high school students and stuff, they want to be a full-time YouTuber and such.

Fastest Path To Full-Time YouTube

SPEAKER_00 29:42

What's the smartest way to get there the fastest? Now, I want to be clear, I'm not talking about let's get there in 30, 60 days. I'm not, I don't, I don't subscribe to those things. I feel like the setting the right foundation, getting the right foundation is the best way to do that. If you had to start from today as a new small creator in 2026 with what's available to us now, how would you go about building a brand slash channel that would be able to sustain you as a full-time content creator within like two years or so? What would be your strategy?

SPEAKER_01 30:14

You know, uh my answer to this question actually is illustrated by this really good um like industry report that was done by the Tilt a couple years ago. I think it's still just as relevant today. And I think the the foundational uh philosophy I'd lay out on the table is the choice of either picking entertainment or education. So if I wanted to go full-time on YouTube guaranteed, and there is no guarantee, but if I wanted to go full-time on YouTube guaranteed, education has an infinitely uh an infinitely more practical path to going full-time than entertainment does. Because the thing with entertainment is it's almost like a musician that's like, listen, I'm the next Justin Bieber, I just need my shot. Can you give me YouTube tactics to help me get discovered? Answer, sure, I can give you a full a few tactics, but the only way to make it big time in a true, you know, a musician's career, especially over the long haul, is up to the talent. Sure, luck, timing, marketing ability, but it's it's like really entertainment value measured. Like if you want to go viral as a comedian, you need to be that funny. And that's not doesn't undermine the tactics, but that's the entertainment side. The education side is fascinating because the Tilt study found that it still took individuals that went into so basically they actually studied education online entrepreneurs, people who were teaching something, people who are solving some kind of problem. And I think the only thing that is presupposed there is just some level of expertise. Like those that we see most practically go full-time are already experts in something. Now they might not have a degree or an award, but they're a mom that, you know, out of their four kids, all four kids are still living and they've made it to five years old and now they're sharing what they've learned over the last five years and the books. Like it's out of some life experience, and and it's like this maybe unspoken about thing that to a degree you know what you're talking about and you can actually help other people move forward. Again, we also know that even if you're just you're one year ahead of others, a few steps ahead, then you can start. But there's actual value there, and people get results when they watch your stuff. That's that's just um that's the thing I would say. I would, I would say I would choose education, I would teach something. And uh the tilt discovered that while it took about a year, I think, to earn the first dollar, that those were making like maybe decent money around 18 months in. And then kind of like a small business, where they say a small business usually takes like two to three years to be profitable, it's kind of the same idea. So maybe you're working at some other job and you're able to build up this uh channel on the side. It's not limited to this, but to give some examples, I think about um, I had Miss Excel on uh the Think Media podcast, and she teaches Excel. And she was in a corporate career and then was like, oh, you know, this is something I'm doing in my career. I'm gonna start talking about that on YouTube and social media. And then sure enough, you know, that became the thing. So it's like, what could you teach all the way down to, you know, from snowboarding to barbecuing to outdoors? To me, that's yeah, that's usually the the most practical path to full time. Um, and then you're also finally going to be thinking about the business model, and there's just a lot of ways to monetize on that side of things. If we were to go back to entertainment, the business model is typically ad-based, and then maybe Patreon or fan funding and brand deals. Whereas on the education side, eventually you could have your own paid programs, but even just the tools themselves, often as an affiliate or other complementary types of things. You know, there's all kinds of different niches, but niche selection is a big deal. Recently, it there happened to be three people in the same niche, which just shows you how much abundance there is in the world, how many, how many, how much viewership there is, but it was like the preparedness niche. And so, I mean, you get into preparedness, living off the grid, all that stuff. It it actually is literally like unlimited the types of things, and that is also supported by brand deals, as well as affiliates, solar panels, water filtration systems, and then they also did some of their own things. They did they this particular um client and student of ours uh has many different workbooks and trainings on like just managing gas, how to make it so it doesn't go bad, and then the you know, and it's these it's incredibly practical with this utility aspect to it. That's that'd be my answer to your question. I mean, there could be more tactics, but I think even just choosing kind of what is the big are you gonna be entertainment or education? What's kind of gonna potentially be the business model? This is presupposing that I want, you said I want to go full-time on YouTube as opposed to just do it for a hobby and see what happens. I'm like reverse engineering back from it being my career, let's call it, in two years. That's some of the thinking I would go through to make that plan.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

I love that. That makes a lot of sense because I think it's easier for creators who've already done it to kind of backwards engineer it. But that's what the purpose of a podcast like this is. So for people who don't have the experience and understand the mindset that goes behind this, that it is while, yes, YouTube is about art and expressing yourself. If you want to get to a point where you can do it full time, there's a business aspect. And so many people forget that when you're a content creator, you are the manager, you are the producer, you are the camera person, you are the voice talent. Sometimes you are the script, right? You're all these things in one. Uh, and it takes a different mindset for each part of it to be successful. And while you may not be excellent at every single part, you should know a little bit about everything.

Saturation Myths And Packaging Fundamentals

SPEAKER_00 36:13

What do you think for smaller and kind of beginning content creators are are some of the bigger mistakes you're seeing nowadays? I I would probably say that while AI is super powerful, some are overusing it sometimes. But what would you think are some of the things you're seeing that smaller and content creators are doing that's like, yeah, you you're you're headed down the wrong path?

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Well, you know what the first thing that's coming to mind, Travis, and there's others that we could you could pull me back on. The the first one that actually really stands out to me that I noticed recently is um the overemphasis on excuses and obsession with how competitive and hard things are. What's what's interesting about right now, what I'm hearing is it's almost like there's almost like this consensus now, and it's a false belief, but there's this consensus like, no, actually, YouTube is saturated. It is uh it's too full, it's too crowded, and I didn't get traction in three videos or even three months, or sometimes even three years, and and I haven't gotten traction yet. So something's broken. The I mean the epiphany that hit me was I was like, actually, it this is just the exact same as it's always been. Like it's just always took like way back in early 2010s. Um, anybody who had a few years head start on then was like, Yeah, it took me five years to really start getting momentum. It took me seven years. And I'm today I'm seeing this greater obsession with people who want it to happen in like seven minutes, and maybe because of what you can experience on short form, because certainly TikTok and Instagram and YouTube Shorts can blow up quickly. Um, and long form can as well. So I think that's that's like the the biggest one. It's just like a a fortitude of uh patience in uh in like learning skills. And then here's the thing that's fascinating is we actually just recently did a cohort, and at the end of it, uh Sherry, who joined this cohort, she's 77, no social media following, zero followers on any platform. Brand new YouTube channel she starts going through these five weeks with us. Posts her first video, no other videos on the channel. Her first video gets 37,000 views. Insane. And it gets 500 comments or something like that. And it proves, well, I'm not trying to overemphasize like this is easy, it's just that it's possible. That happened four weeks ago, Travis. So it's like middle of 2026, the algorithm can you could still, you're still one video away, you can still break out. So I think I think one is like just a a return to some somewhat of an old school mindset that's like, yeah, if if if I can break out in seven months, cool. But a lot of you know, people over the last couple of decades now that have made it, they they do it for the love, they jump into it. You're of course hoping you have targets, you have goals, you're hoping things grow grow, but you're also just super patient. And like if you enjoy it, then enjoy the journey and don't be in such a rush. That's thing one. I do think though, thing number two though, is you're not just waiting, though, like breakthrough is because of timing only. No, it's absolutely because of your positioning, you skilling up and you getting better. And so, what are the phrases we've been saying is master packaging or get ignored? Master packaging or get ignored. So, small channels, what mistakes are they making? I still just see YouTube titles that aren't well crafted. I'm still seeing thumbnails that are super busy and not well designed or have too much text on them. And I still see videos that demonstrate there hasn't been audience research and some thought and strategy that's gone into the channel. Um, this stuff takes time to learn, but I think it's like developing those fundamentals. Like Michael Jordan, the famous basketball player, right, said is master of the fundamentals and everything else you do will rise. Yeah. Content creation and YouTube content creation is a skill set. So I think it's identifying those skills and developing them. And it's also about learning tools. That's why we love VidIQ so much too at Think Media and use it all the time. It's about thinking of what's inside of there research tools, thumbnail design tools, crafting identifying video ideas that have a high likelihood of good view velocity, as well as crafting the titles around that, and then doing it enough so that you learn the real world um nuances that can only happen through experience and practice. And then, yeah, where you started when you also said the use of AI, I think the maybe not just the use of AI and creative, I think the use of AI in even planning and scripting, et cetera, I think it's just really overrated. I think it's crucial, but what people are doing is they're outsourcing their authenticity, originality, and their thinking to AI. And you're going to then just sound like AI as opposed to sounding like yourself. So that also I think is partly a patience thing. Like, I'm, I couldn't be more passionate about AI, but we still have to be, I think we should be more cognitively engaged, not less. And I think what people see it as an opportunity is like, finally, you know, this can, if you will, take some work off my plate. True, and automation and agents, and okay, whatever. But like, I also think, no, it's just a it's you still got to be engaged and bring in your own unique flavor and and and vibe and style to things. AI will make you better, but keep that front and center and don't rely on AI too much.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Yeah. I that's amazing. There it when you first start off, I immediately thought of uh I'm paraphrasing the quote. It's like people have uh slow cooker dreams, but uh microwave expectations on the execution on it. That's not really that's not really you summarize like my whole section up in one sentence. But you said it so much uh better. I think there's more information to gather from what you said. All right, finally, um, you've given so much back. And I just personally am a people person, and I've always uh thought a lot of you. I think you're an amazing person. And I wonder sometimes, like with all this, I look at all the content you do. You do a lot of videos of like an hour and stuff, and I know how draining these things are, but you continue to push. You're you're an entrepreneur, you're a CEO, you're a father, you're a husband, you're all of these things.

Burnout Recovery Health And Delegation

SPEAKER_00 42:48

How do you not just completely burn out? I mean, you you can't afford to really burn out because you have so many people relying on you. How do you keep pushing forward? And what kind of safeguards do you have in place for yourself? Or do you even have it?

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Well, that's I mean, I think I got two answers to that question. I think one, you know, and I can give some details on this, but I think I did burn out recently. I just about two months ago, I found myself in the emergency room, and 24 hours later I was going into emergency surgery. And so um I ended up having, you know, an abscess, and uh it was you know pretty crazy that it happened. They said, you know, why did this happen? It wasn't like a hygiene thing, it wasn't like um it wasn't we don't think genetics were still looking into it. It that but if I look, I think you combine stress, fatigue, you know, and running at a pace. So I think on the one hand, over a decade career, when you say Travis, I think I've been thoughtful. It's it's like fundamentals like health, like new uh diet, like actual nutrition, um, supplements and things like that, sleep. Um And but then on the other hand, you know, my faith, all kinds of things to keep my mindset strong. But I think also just realizing, you know, I'm 42 years old, you know, who knows? Like it had me rethinking what my uh, you know, about pace and health and all those things. That just happened the last couple months. So I think if there's any lessons for for those listening, I think it's your race, your your pace. We've got to coach people that have had, you know, chronic health challenges and you know have had those in our family as well. And and so it's like you definitely don't compare yourself to somebody else. There's people listening to this, you know, that have carried something their whole life. But I think having a positive mindset about what you can still do, if you do need to what you could do in the midst of your circumstances, if you need to rest, you should rest. And I think we've seen in the creator economy enough, if you will, burnout or people that go through different seasons of their career. I'm definitely wanting to keep pushing, as you described. You know, it's like keep pushing. Um and uh kind of high performance habits have helped me on the long haul. And then, you know, the last thing that's interesting that about that, though, and this is a huge blessing for where I suppose an at-home independent creator could build something where you start to hire other people and lean on other people. We actually were hosting a two-day event in Vegas when I found myself in the hospital um days before that event started. And I was texting my assistant Jordan and our CMO Melissa, like, I still gotta go, like, I'm getting on a plane. And they're like, No, like, hey, we got this and we shuffled some things. And because our company has grown to where there's other incredible leaders and coaches, that event ended up happening without me. And it got incredible feedback, people loved it. And then at our recent event, which I was able to attend, I'm feeling better, you know, um, is uh somebody, this guy Ryan that was there, he goes, Man, you know, at first it was like, oh, we understood, but like, because you went to both, he's like, Um, you know, you not being there at first was like, oh, is this gonna drop in quality? And it didn't. And it's really cool that nobody missed out on anything. And then I did like a virtual thing after to just connect with uh our attendees. But all that to say is, yeah, I think that's a real answer to your question of the ups and downs and the uncertainty of life, as much habits as possible to support health and longevity, I think is important. Also, life could be unexpected. And uh, yeah, you know, I was recently in the hospital, man. So I don't know. It's insane. How do you deal with burnout? I don't know. I just did. How do you deal with it? I know a couple IV bags, a couple weeks of recovery, and you know, it's this stuff can be a moving target, just navigating for where you at you're at and what's on your plate and doing your best.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Along the way, right? Either uh you deal with burnout or burnout deals with you.

Final Advice And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Uh, Sean, thank you so much for joining us. You've spread so much great information. Obviously, there's links in the description. If you're listening to the audio-only podcast in the show notes, you'll be able to find all the goodness. Uh, I can't thank you enough. As someone who, you know, as a content creator, when I was up coming up, I was watching a ton of Think Media uh videos, especially when I was getting my cameras together and everything. If you've ever looked up camera views, you've definitely seen Sean. And if you started checking out his podcast, make sure you check it out tonight. It's awesome, and there's tons of really great stuff on there. But if you're new here, feel free to hit the subscribe button here. And if you like that one, there's a thumbs up that's free of charge. And I got one more video for you to watch. It's right here. See y'all in the next one.