Packaging That Changes Everything

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We talk with architecture professor and YouTube creator Stuart Hicks about how he earns nearly 100 million views with fewer than 160 videos by treating packaging, pacing, and audience framing as part of the craft. We unpack the unhealthy side of analytics, how to use comments without taking them personally, and the simple tests Stuart uses to make niche topics feel irresistible. 
• translating teaching skills into clear educational YouTube videos 
• avoiding lecture habits that hurt retention and watch time 
• using YouTube analytics without confusing data for self-worth 
• reading the comment section for assumed knowledge and tone 
• setting a sustainable upload cadence for high-effort production 
• choosing topics with a cause and effect gap 
• improving click-through rate with better titles and thumbnails 
• running substitution tests to beat niche apathy 
• evolving a distinctive 3D thumbnail style with more control 
• deciding whether to stay part time or go full time as a creator 
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Transcript

When Data Warps Your Confidence

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I I have a graph that's just like crazy where it's just flat and then uh changed just the title and it came up to I don't know three million views or something. Like it's it it it matters so much. Like if I use the word architect in the title, I have to also be interested in that same title if I were to substitute something like real estate agent, which I don't care about at real estate agents at all. It's kind of intoxicating, but it's really easy to kind of equate the data to either the like how good you're doing or or your audience, which isn't the same thing. Anytime that I assume that I know going in, I'm always humbled.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Hey, welcome back to the OnlyPodcast. It's here to help teach you with teachers. I'm Travis, and I'm here with a very special guest today, Stuart Hicks, who has done something really amazing on YouTube with almost 100 million views on YouTube, uh, and almost 700,000 subscribers. He's done it with less than 160 videos. That is something that not many people have done, and today we're gonna learn how he did it. Stuart, welcome to the show. Hello, thank you for having me. If you're new here, this is what we do. We talk to creators all the time, and we help you grow your YouTube channel with all types of content. Feel free to hit that subscribe button. If you're listening to the audio only podcast, there will be information in the show notes. All right, Stuart, tell us a little bit about you and your content, what type of content you're doing, and then we'll dive right in.

Turning Architecture Teaching Into YouTube

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yeah, uh, well, thank you for that. Uh I didn't know that stat was uh unique, so I'm interested in learning about how it uh, you know, how it stacks up against other uh experiences. But um, yeah, my name is Stuart Hicks. I started the channel in 2020, December 2020. And uh it really came out of um my teaching. So I'm a professor of architecture, and 2020, things went online. I found myself making lectures for the students, recording them, and I got really into it. I had a green screen, started doing these skits for the students and stuff. And at the end of the semester, uh they said, you know, you should start a YouTube channel because I clearly liked um doing what I was doing. And um it tapped into a lot of what I the creative parts of architecture and design that I liked. You know, video is has a lot of parallels. And um during COVID, I made one video a week. And I because I really liked doing it and I wanted to be better at it, and I thought the only way to do it was to set a regular schedule, don't think about it too much, don't worry about how you look, just go for it and uh learn along the way. Set up one like thing to learn every week, in addition to the research, the topic, and just go for it. And so started doing that and started slowing down the pace as soon as I started to think to myself, I would know what to do with another week, you know. So learning a little bit more about you know what makes a video work better than others. Um, but I don't assume that I know. Well, anytime that I assume that I know going in, I'm always humbled. Um so yeah, I think uh I I loved lecturing for students and stuff and making that fun and kind of turned that into making videos uh every once in a while. Still a professor, I'm also an associate dean, so I have uh a lot of other roles uh and YouTube um is is one of those.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

What's interesting is I so I spoke to another teacher who's still a full-time teacher but has a very successful YouTube channel. Is it almost feels like a bit of a cheat code when you're in a specific niche? And let me explain. Uh you're in an educational niche, but you already do that professionally. So you it kind of makes it a superpower for you when you go into when you dive into like more complicated um subjects. For example, I was just watching uh this video about the elevators without doors, which is a very scary looking thing. And I love the way you started the video with like showing the thing and kind of explaining like this is the most dangerous thing. And you can almost envision yourself going, and by the way, if you're watching the the YouTube channel, you should be able to see the B-roll for this. And if you're listening to the audio podcast, you need to go to the YouTube channel real quick because this is a crazy looking elevator. Um, what part of the things from your your in real life job did you bring to the YouTube job that kind of helped that transition somewhat?

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah, so um I uh taught a lot, I volunteered to teach a number of different courses that were for people who had never experienced or never taken any other architecture classes. So, like people, one of the most telling for me was a summer program I did, a workshop for a month of people who had already had an undergraduate degree in something else, but were thinking about doing architecture. And so I was uh I think what helped was that I could imagine talking to them. Like, how would how do I, you know, present ideas to them? You know, one group, like my the second year undergrads that I would teach, they're you know, 1920, um, versus uh, you know, someone who might be upwards of like 30 or something in that um program. And you know, trying to just think about the audience uh is kind of in that range. And someone who's smart, who is very curious and interested about the world, but just maybe doesn't think about uh how things work through the lens of buildings and how they um participate in their lives in various ways. Um so in that sense, I thought I think you know, even as I get older, I'm a I am able to engage with that audience uh a lot. Um, and that's I think probably one of the most valuable pieces of it. Um I think a lot of it, the other stuff had some like real parallels and some real um sort of red herrings. So, like when giving a lecture, for instance, it's uh I found that I repeat myself a lot, you know, to make a point. But in a video, if you repeat yourself, you lost your audience right away. They're like, Do you think I'm dumb or something? Uh so there's like there's a lot of um also just like scale of presentation, like in a lecture hall, you're you try to be big, you try to fill that whole lecture hall. But on YouTube, when the camera's right here, that can be kind of off-putting and stuff. So I think that there's um some real lessons to be gained from teaching and some real um some like maybe false starts or things that you might not think of. Also, the university doesn't care if there's audiences typically for the kinds of things that they talk about. Um, a room full of four people is fine uh when you're kind of parsing in the minutiae of you know some really intellectual topic. Um, and so there's other aspects of that world that don't privilege or don't um actively maybe ignore or turn its back on the kinds of skills and um uh things that are you know sort of at play uh in the YouTube world. So uh pluses and minuses, I think.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

One of the

Early Uploads And Learning The Gap

SPEAKER_01 7:07

things that you mentioned is that you start at the end of 2020, and that was a unique time in the world where you know there's still a lot of lockdown going on, um, which for you starting YouTube channels kind of created this um, I don't know, maybe unrealistic entry into YouTube because there were so many viewers, there's so much opportunity. So I'm curious what your first couple of months were like when you were uploading. Because typically, if you started a channel like yours, uh probably back when you did, I mean, actually, if you started the channel the way you produce it now, probably would blow up right away. But, you know, when you're first starting out, did you have the production quality? Did you have all that things? Probably not. Um, tell me what those first couple uploads were like from a performance perspective. And what were your expectations when you first uploaded?

SPEAKER_00 7:47

I at the time couldn't see the difference between what I was doing and the YouTubers I was looking up to. Like, and and and I knew that it couldn't be, I knew that what I'm making couldn't be as good as that. Um, but I couldn't really see the difference. Um so I would put stuff out and want to learn from it. Um, I I just wanted to get better. I didn't have a ton of expectation other than I like doing this, I want to get better at it. And YouTube and its uh almost infinite amount of data that it gives you is such a unique environment, at least for like architects and professors and designers, that like you don't know when someone likes the stuff you make, usually uh in architecture or something, or it's like you know, it just doesn't translate. And so the data uh that YouTube gives you gives you this really intense lens to just study really closely to try and understand how what people are liking about what you're making or not. I mean, it's totally biased as far as like whether it's good or not. It's like you're just it's that that is just focusing on one aspect of to of what you're making, but it's kind of intoxicating um to have that. I got really into fantasy football, for instance. Like I just love studying the data, stuff like that. And um so I got into it. But it's really easy to kind of equate the data to either the like how good you're doing or or your audience, which isn't the same thing. Like, you know, like I mean, they say it's the same thing, but like if you're talking to data, it doesn't, it's not that you're not talking to the people uh who are watching it. And and so um yeah, as far as like expectations, I think it was I know that I'm not as good as those folks, I don't know how, I don't know why, I want to get good, I want to look at them and understand what goes into this stuff. Um and architecture, like you said that like um being a professor is maybe a kind of leg up, but I think arc the having the skills of that architecture brings to you is also a little bit because while I didn't, I had some experience um uh with editing, uh, but I have you know like experience with visual comp you know things like architecture, you're talking taught about acoustics, you're taught about light, and that sort of stuff. Um and while I didn't understand it for video, it uh primed me at least for thinking about a lot of the stuff that I care about while I'm making a video. So um yeah, I found a lot of a lot uh alliances there. Um I very early on, there was a uh there's like an online magazine called Arc Daily that um posted my videos every when I would uh when I would post them. And I don't know if external views like that um what it does for the algorithm or if it helped. Um but that was an early um help for me where it had a large you know audience, but you know, it's really uh YouTube is the audience, like it's only on there, and they are the biggest um you know marketing or like arm of uh that it can bring to a video is really just the YouTube algorithm.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

What

Analytics Obsession And Comment Section Reality

SPEAKER_01 11:21

metrics and analytics do you look at that maybe you obsess over since it seems like you are kind of like me, like I I would always obsess over the analytics. What are the ones you like to look at and what do you what kind of information do you take away from them?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

I try not to look anymore because it can be kind of it can I mean I look, but um I it can be very like I don't know, it can feel like Unhealthy, let's be honest. It can feel unhealthy, yeah. Yes, and it was for me for a while. Um yeah, um so anyway, uh what do I look at? Um I do the usual stuff. So, you know, views, view duration, how long people are looking, or you know, how people how long people are watching the video, how long as a percentage of uh the video's length are they watching, um how many people are clicking on it, um, what's the um conversation like in the in the chat or in the comment section? Um who are they, where are they from, how old are they? Um I think the comments section is really useful for understanding like the tone of the reception of it. People like I think one of the things that are is tough for like a niche like architecture is calibrating uh the assumed knowledge that you can have with your audience. Like it's easy to overexplain something that maybe you think they didn't understand, but they did, or vice versa. So um the the comment section is a good place to understand that. Um I you know would sit and just watch the views for a while, test different titles and thumbnails manually, which helped me understand things and the kind of um cause and effect that that would have. You know, with A-B testing now, we don't have to do that quite as diligently, which is nice. Um, I would also watch the um how things would change over time. So, like I was put the video out on Thursday morning at eight. I've always done that. And then by being so consistent there, I can see how it's gonna do how it's doing on Thursday, how it's doing on Friday, Saturday or Sunday, and get a much better sense of how it's gonna do in the future. Because by Saturday, that's when it starts to go out to a broader audience, you know. Like there's just kind of like feels like there's thresholds that um in time and in um viewership or or in um I don't know, certain metrics that um of buckets of audiences that the algorithm kind of targets. And so being consistent about timing and stuff helps me to understand that a little bit too.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

When you look at the comment section uh for kind of feedback on your videos, are you looking more for like how things land, or are you looking for like confirmation on things that you thought going into the video? Because I think it's one of the things that's not talked about very much. I try to speak on it whenever possible, but looking at the comment section is a double-edged sword. You should do it because it helps you understand some things, but there are some vocal minority that will take you off track if you pay too much attention to them. Can you tell us about the balance of that and what you take away from it?

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yes, it's uh another one of those things that can be real unhealthy. Um I think it's just like what what conversations are going down in there and what's what's what are they fixating on and what's the level of investment in that conversation that people are bringing to it? Um I think it that that assumed knowledge thing for me is is uh really critical. And so, like by looking at other people's language and what how they're talking about a topic is just really useful in that way for me. Um it can also spawn other ideas for videos and stuff by you know seeing if it kind of veers off in ways that you didn't expect. But you certainly have to not take it personally because you know I mean it'll just eat at you. Um uh so like yeah, I think that sort of compartmentalization is think is I think about thinking about it as data is um the way to go about it, not as a you know, personal verification or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Yeah, very important to keep that uh that these people uh don't have a necessarily a vested interest in making you feel good about your content at all. And sometimes they have a vested interest in the opposite. So let's just keep that in

Cadence Pressure And Topic Selection Criteria

SPEAKER_01 16:05

mind. Um much like some of the other creators I've talked to recently, you're one of these creators that takes extra time to have truly um artistic and and and impressive content. But because of that, you can't get them out multiple times a week, which means you are pinning a lot of performance on a per video basis. And if one tanks, you may be a month away from the next one. Um, talk about that, how that affects you, how it affects the topics that you choose, and and what that process is like for you.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah, I mean, I think our sweet spot is a video every three weeks with the um the level that we're putting into it right now. Right now, we're putting one out every four weeks because we're doing some stuff with the city of Chicago and other outside stuff. But um, I think every three weeks feels right as far as like what we can put out, and it feels pretty good with the um pacing for the keeping the audience once a month for us is too far. Like certain creators, like I don't know, like a Neo or somebody like or a mustard or like they are really into what you're talking about, like artistic three-dimensional 3D animations, the entirety, they're not they're not, they're faceless channels and they're one a month, and they gotta nail it. Um and for us, uh yeah, that's I don't think that that level is quite right. Um the pressure it puts on the topics, I think, like if I'm to self-evaluate right now, I think when I go back and watch a video that like had done well many a couple years ago or something, I would I often think to myself, well, I'd never do that now. Like, um, and so I think I tend to rely on constraints um to of known ways of doing things that have proven themselves, but they've proven themselves at the scale of 15 videos, not one. So, like it might I think what that does is it maybe lower it raises the floor, but it also probably caps the ceiling a little bit versus being a little bit more open and experimental sometimes, every once in a while to be able to find new ways of um finding new ceilings and things like that. So I think it probably puts us into a narrower band. Um and it also puts a lot of pressure on topics where we'll only do topics that meet quite a few criteria, which again, it's like one of those like not experimenting things. Like I think that there's a possibility of finding new topics that or new areas that we haven't done before, if we kind of had less of a chokehold on what the video needed to do. So it's definitely a balance. And I think for us, it we just kind of feel it like when it's right or not. Um, and at one a month, it's not right. Um, and we'll we'll come back to one every three weeks uh after this.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

What is um what are some of the criteria for per view? I think this is important because um so it's funny, it's different for every niche, it's different for every person. I remember I just talked to someone recently, they were like, well, my criteria is, you know, will like 20 million people watch this within 30 days? Of course, that's not something for everybody. Like, that's kind of like probably not, not in the niches that I'm doing. Um, but what's like the realistic criteria where you go, okay, it needs to match this, this, and this? I think every creator should have some type of uh guideline like this. What are yours? Like metric-wise or no, just just whatever like for the topic itself. Like you know, going into it that a topic needs to do this, this, and this before you're gonna shoot it or research it or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

So for us, I think one of the most important things right now is this like what we're what I call call like a cause and effect gap. So like trying to choose a topic that we can create a thesis about where there is somewhat familiar thing that has that we can kind of trace its uh impact on the world to some outcome that is just right as far as it's not too close to the thing that it's like obvious of what it's affecting the world is. It was not too far that it sounds absurd, but there's this kind of sweet spot. And there's also, I think, a sweet spot as far as like familiarity of the topic um and unfamiliarity, um, so that it piques interest. So trying to kind of balance that aspect of it. Um other criteria, is there a story? Uh are we able to do it? Like, why would we tell this story? Um is there um like assets out there that we can draw on? You know, is there enough B-roll or uh 3D models that we can make that you know to help tell this story? So just kind of like logistics like that. And as far as performance, I mean I try not to set any um, you know, it's always so changeable that it I try not to set expectations on it. I mean, I I personally don't, I mean, I just don't like when it's a 10, when it's like when it's performing the worst out of the last 10 videos of ours. So like that doesn't feel good. Um I think at this point we've gotten a sense of like, I think that this better, this video should be doing better than this. And then it's time to spend more time on the title and thumbnail.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

So talk to us about that, like the revision of like you put something out there, you're pretty sure the video is good. And there's some ways to figure that out. Like if your retention is really good, but maybe your click through rate isn't good. Uh, a lot of times uh choosing a title and thumbnail uh can fix that. Talk to us about that process, how you reset. Rethink the packaging. And have do you even have a story where you've done that and it worked?

Title And Thumbnail Tests That Work

unknown 22:04

Oh God, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

All the time. I mean, I I have a graph that's just like crazy where it's just flat and then uh change the just the title and it came up to, I don't know, three million views or something. Like it's it it matters so much. But it like like what you said of whether there's a a good watch time or not as an indicator, a lot of times the right title makes for a longer watch time because it it fits the topic so well. And so it also just relies on your gut, just saying, like, this is better than this. Like, um, and we we need to find the title that not only grabs people, but like makes them want to watch the whole thing, um, which isn't always the same thing, right? Like a title that grabs somebody doesn't might bring them through the first three minutes or something, but it's not going to bring them, keep them curious throughout the whole thing. Um I have a couple games that I play in my head uh with the titles and thumbnails. One is um I substitute real estate agents for architects. Like if I use the word architect in the title, I have to also be interested in that same title if I were to substitute something like real estate agent, which I don't care about at real estate agents at all. So it's like, am I relying on people's interest in architecture to drive interest here? If if the title is structured in such a way that it almost doesn't matter what um profession you put in there, then that's a good spot. Um, and for buildings, I also do something similar where it's like if I'll put in like Coffee Maker or like something that I just don't care about how it works, or you know, I just want it to work. And I'll substitute something like that in for what I like the word building or construction or something like that. So it's like this um, it's a test for us to to see is like, is this framing interesting enough that it will overcome apathy around architecture and buildings and things like because for for us, we're just I'm like immersed in architecture, I find it inherently interesting. Um, so I can often get stuck in um thinking that something is interesting to me, but you know, the way it's framed isn't interesting to anybody else. Um we try to do like a how or a why. Um I think with the cause and effect thing, it's like two, it's like what's the what's the subject and the object is often really um critical. Like if we have a thesis about how like uh let's say um apartment works, right? What's the scale of the impact that is gonna keep people interested? Like, is it about how it impacts your life? Is it about how it impacts the city? Is it, you know, like and how can you I structure both the story and the title to figure that out? Like, and if you are if it is about the city, do you say Chicago or do you say like a US city? Like, because too broad and it feels uh inconsequential or just kind of like abstract, but too small and it can feel too local and niche. So I think finding the right scale of framing the impact of the thing that you're talking about is really a key piece of that.

Building A Signature 3D Thumbnail Look

SPEAKER_01 25:39

One thing I noticed about your channel is the evolution of um the thumbnails on it. Uh, you know, you've gone through different like seasons on your channel uh from a perspective of looking at the thumbnail styles, and they all look good, but it's very like now. I feel like there's a distinct Stuart Hicks. If I see this thumbnail, I know it's you without looking at the name type uh branding. Talk to us about your evolution through thumbnails over the years and how you kind of landed on where you are now. It's very distinct. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Um, well, that's great. Um the let's see. I think it has to do with our embrace of 3D um modeling and animations. So there was a phase in the like year one and a half, maybe two, where I used Cinema 4D uh as a program to make animations. But then I kind of dropped it for a while and then saw that everybody was using Blender and thought like that must be where it's at. And so, you know, set up a series of videos where it was like, okay, well, we want to learn Blender. How do we kind of structure this? And then uh one of the pressures that that relieved was we're often talking about something very specific, but there's not a lot of uh imagery for it. Or we're telling a story about something and someone, and we don't have enough um imagery to tell that story in conjunction with the words. So the 3D animation kind of filled that gap um for us. And the thumbnail is kind of similar in that way. I think it at first, the very first, I just kind of collaged a whole bunch of stuff and tried to make it bold looking. Then it used images, um, which the problem was that you have only so much control over images that you get from elsewhere to make it your own. And then nowadays we make it usually in 3D, which gives us almost complete control of the perspective, of the color, of um exactly what we're looking at. And that kind of control became really useful. I think if we started that way, I wouldn't have known what I would need to control. So, you know, it wouldn't have mattered that much. Um, and you know, some of the things about it is is like logistics. So like they're it's on a black background usually these days, and that's just because um it's not lit, um, and we're not able to see the horizon line that you would see in the three-dimensional space. So it just kind of uh goes off in the distance. Um, the grid to kind of help give a sense of scale, and I've always used the same font. Um, that's the only thing I've I've I have kept that in the title and thumbnail on that yellow. I don't know why I picked that yellow, but it's very specific yellow. We're we've joked in here that that like there's always a science to like which words should be yellow versus white and where the underline should go. And um, you know it when it's wrong, and then you put and it's like, oh yeah, that's what the way it needs to be. But um the I think the move away from photographs, which you have no control over, to 3D. And then we also have rules about how we use 3D. So like if we're showing a full building, we never show it as a building, we always show it as a model. And so, like a lot of the um the thumbnails will will show present a building, but like as a model, like as a small scale thing, we'll only show something at full scale with like real materials and stuff if it's like a cutaway or something like that. Um, and so the rules about 3D, coupled with just being having the control of 3D, have kind of produced the the thumbnails that we're using these days.

Why Growth Happens With Fewer Videos

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Earlier you you were kind of surprised when I mentioned like uh how well you've done in the few amount of videos you've done. Uh I just think just to give you like an idea, um, because I'm surrounded by these channels all the time, and I, you know, myself have been a creator and stuff. For example, like uh a friend of mine has about 150,000 subscribers. It took him about 500 and some odd videos to get there. Uh, I just looked at a channel with 5,000 subscribers that has 1,400 videos. Like it goes all over the place, but it's very, very, very rare to get to a level of success where you're like at uh just under 700,000 subscribers and all your videos are getting hundreds of thousands of views in less than 200 videos because there's a lot of things to think about there. That means that you don't have a lot of reps on YouTube. If despite the fact you've been doing it for over five years, technically the reps per you know video is not that high, but you're at such a high level and performing so high. I always find it interesting when I talk to different creators, they never have an understanding of how well they're doing. No matter how small or big you are, you'd be surprised how well you're doing. Looking back at the things you've learned during the course of from the first video to now, if you had to surmise or guess why you think you're doing so well, what do you think it is? Is it because you're able to focus on specific things? Are you able to explain things? But obviously, your editing looks really great right now. It's a very compelling piece of content. But like if you had to really uh self-analyze why you think you're doing so well, what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 31:15

We don't, I don't do anything other than it's I don't have any social media presence. I've made literally one short. Um, all we do is it was a test. All we do is make these like 12-minute videos. So it's like for for me, it was about choosing what we want to care about, uh set a pace, and then set criteria for how you know how you how to think about whether you're doing a good job at it or not. And that was that was it. Like I I I want to always keep be getting better, and I always want to like shift the criteria around for what getting better means. Like in the early days, it was like my voice sounds like crap. Like, what do I need to do to make it sound good? Um, or the lighting looks like crap. What do I do? Um, you know, and so that week I might not be as focused on like the story or the video or something, um, or the performance. Um I think I also because I'm a professor and stuff, I had a chip on my shoulder that going in, I knew that this wouldn't be really well received in the academic community as like you know, scholarship or something like that. And I for my well-being, I needed it to do well enough to so that I could just kind of like not care that they or like say, well, if you're dismissing it, it's your problem because this is clearly demonstrated its value. Like, so I needed that for myself. And that kept, yeah, so that like in the early days when I did one a week, I I literally 12 hours a day, seven days a week were was working, um nonstop, like no matter what. Um and uh, you know, over the years, maybe the last couple years, trying to like have a life again. Um so that kind of motivated me. So like I think that motivation to have it perform at a certain level that I could feel like, yeah, your criticism doesn't really hold water, it's doing fine. Um, I don't know what that number was, like, and it wasn't even really a number, it was maybe just more of a feeling. Like, I'll know that when I get there. And then this kind of just like rhythm of, and I gotta hit that. You know, I know it's not good yet, but I gotta get it out. There's another one on the horizon. That kind of um also for me, like I just need to take the pressure off like that. Um like I think I need like a like a feeling of a safety net or something that like if I if it was all in, I or like, you know, and depend life depended on it, it wouldn't be a good, I wouldn't do very well at it. Um so that's I think what I think too, just like the willingness to be humbled, like over and over and over again, not take it too seriously, but also care about it a lot.

Income Security And Staying Part Time

SPEAKER_00 34:28

That's not so easy to do.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

How close are you at this point with the amount of usership you get per video and kind of overall in a month? Because the nice other thing about what your content is, it's evergreen. So it's not like within two months it's no longer relevant, it's relevant for a very long time. Uh, how close would you say you are to completely being able to replace your income from your other your real time, your real job? Like, are you close? Are you there? Are you past it? I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Um, it's hovered around it um for a while, but I have ten years, so like I can't be fired off. Oh, well that's my best thing ever. Well, I needed that to even start doing this. Like again, it's like that thing is like, oh, I needed to this this protection so that I felt like it would be okay. Um so I I don't see myself giving that up or not doing it. Um I think lately we just got a studio. We were in a studio that we didn't pay for. Now we pay. I don't think I could live on it at the moment, but we're it's also like a thousand, it's it's every four weeks instead of um three. So like it's down right now. Yeah. Um so yeah, uh it could have replaced it, I think, most of the time, um, but not right now, probably not.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

As you as you get older um in life, I think everyone's uh kind of priorities change as far as like what is important to them and such. And I've talked to a lot of creators who are in a point kind of where you are now where the the YouTube channel started to make around the same as the real job. Some of them love their jobs and they don't want to leave it, and that's fine and fair. Some were fine with their jobs, but like, if I really want this YouTube thing to be something, I now have to spend more time doing that thing. Do you feel like if you know yourself well, that that would ever be the case? Do you ever see yourself just being a full-time creator, kind of really going in and just making this your thing? Or is the the comfort and and some kind of semi- although I mean nowadays, what is really what job is really secure? I don't know. Uh like uh is that too intoxicating for you to leave anytime soon?

SPEAKER_00 36:32

I think that, you know, like there's a lot of creators that have leveraged their channels into some other kind of business, you know, like Doug DeMiro and like, you know, Cars and Bids or something like that, or like selling markers or whatever it is. Most a lot of creators that have done this at their as their life work have that as their um off-ramp. Um I don't like thinking about this as a business that much. Like I just I want it to self-sustain. Um and I have no other business that I'm like trying to like feed with this. Um it is like I like what it is. Um and for me as a professor, it that's like this is my hobby, sort of not, I don't want to say it's my hobby necessarily, but it's like it's my it sort of is the side gig in one way, um, but it's also the one I chose because I really liked doing it. Um and it doesn't feel like work ever. Um so in that sense, it's like it kind of I like what it is. Um, and if I change, if I start needing it to be everything for me, that would change it. I would know I would need to probably be on TikTok and do other things, which I don't think I'd be good at. Like I wasn't good at, like I didn't think I was good at this. I, you know, at the beginning, it's like I don't it's like I want to learn how to get good at that thing. So like I I want to be kind of measured about what it is I'm going after um to get good at or to think you know, think about it a lot. And um I I just don't I don't know what shorts, like I don't know what makes a good short. Like I haven't like I haven't investigated it that much. Um so I yeah, I don't see uh doing it as a my only thing. And even the people who do it as their only thing, the thing we do, just 12-minute videos, isn't the only thing. You know, like there is some other things that they're doing. Um, and I would have to figure out what that would be.

Watching YouTube Without Getting Lost

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Do you watch uh much YouTube? I know it sounds like a strange question, but the answer goes all over the place. You'd be surprised at how many successful YouTubers don't watch YouTube. I'm always flumbleing away, but tell me, um uh we'll talk about maybe guilty pleasures later, but like when you see uh a small creator pop up in in a niche or something that you watch and you watch, do you do you ever see them doing things you're like, ah, I wish I could just tell them to just do this? Like they need to do, do you ever see that? And if so, like what are the things you see small creators doing that they should correct?

SPEAKER_00 39:21

I'm honestly don't think I know what works. So, like if I see a young or a new channel pop up, I assume that they're doing something really well. And like I want to like see what they're doing. And I will put it in terms of like, ah, we wouldn't do that. Um, but I don't necessarily assume that it it means that they're not. I I think there's probably a title or thumbnail that I would see and be like, yeah, that's that's just not gonna get the audience, you know, like um, or you're or they're framing something in a way that's not audience first, um, but that they had some preconceived idea of what the story is that they wanted to tell and just told it. And maybe they brought some really great thinking and craft to it, but at the same time were just kind of coming at it because that's what interested them, and that's fine. Maybe that's why they want to do it. But if they do want to build an audience around it, that that's how you have to think about it. Um, so I yeah, I don't necessarily think of it in terms of like fixing or um everything about YouTube's changing all the time. And so like to assume I think if like if you I think as soon as you assume you know how it works or you've got it down, then it's you're you're stopped moving, or you're um you're just gonna be humbled real fast about it. Yeah. I mean, maybe some people do, like, but I also think like I just assume that no one cares about me or my personality on it. Like, I only I only it's not like like the YouTube YouTubers I watch religiously are ones that I have a parasocial relationship with. Like I like, I'll put I'll watch anything that they put out, you know, because I I enjoy it. But I give some examples, like who are you watching? I love Cle I'll watch every single Cletus McFarlane video um that he puts on the main channel. I I got into NASCAR because of he's driving NASCAR. Like I, you know, I just really enjoy it. Um but I don't aspire or don't think that that I could do that. Um and so I don't create the kind of videos that people I don't think I create the kind of videos that if you watch one, you'll watch, you know, like you'll just get hooked and watch all of them because of it. Because I think there's other aspects to the kinds of videos that draw people in like that. Um I baseball bat bros, love that guy. Like um, I I don't I don't play baseball anymore, I don't watch baseball anymore, but like watching him evaluate bats and cranking out home runs and him just talking about the minutiae of you know, which would that like I love that like I love watching that stuff. So um, but yeah, again, it's like I don't assume that I that's what I do. I don't watch a lot of videos that are in the same niche. Yeah, most people don't. Yeah, because like I can't, A, I can't enjoy it at all. Like, I'm just thinking about like comparing and the only time I'll watch it is like that one looks interesting. What are they doing in that one? And it's I'm only watching it for craft and not for content because it's like I'm too distracted by wanting to learn the craft. Sometimes I can get over it. Like if uh like um I watched a Veritassium video the other day that was just like, oh, I thought this was fun. You know, like I watched it for the content, but um, most of the time I'm I can't quite get into the educational stuff.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Is there someone out there that you would love to collab with that you think would be kind of fun? Um, that maybe you haven't, or is there anyone and it doesn't have to be someone in your niche? It could be like, I want to do something really subversive and interesting. Like this person doesn't know anything about what I'm doing. Let's try to have something fun. I mean, collab with yeah, like someone you watch or or someone you think is just a fun creator, and you're like, it would just be really cool.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

I mean, besides Cletus, besides Gletus, but he's so tall, like I'm short, and it's like six, he's like yeah, no. The fun there will be amazing.

unknown 43:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Um I could do baseball bed, bros. Like, I I haven't thought about like what their collaboration would be, so I'd have to like think about that a little bit. But as far as um I'd be interested in seeing what their um process is like and how they think about it because it seems like they approach it so differently than than me. Um I would, I mean, as far as like other end, I would think like, man, like mustard or something, like those things are gorgeous pieces of art that. They create um or Neo or like I I think the one of those two. I which I've talked I talked to them um but I I haven't ever collaborated with someone like that. Um and I think that could be a lot of fun.

Advice For Bigger More Relatable Topics

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Well, if you're new here and you listen to Stuart and you're like, I need to see some of his stuff. I want to see this elevator that doesn't have doors. I watch the video, it's crazy, it's cool. I will leave a link in the description and in the audio show notes. Obviously, it'll take you over to the YouTube channel. Make sure you check them out. There's some really great stuff there. And I I really greatly appreciate all the things you said because I feel like uh you really pulled back the curtain on the things that uh a creator who's doing well thinks. And that the fact that you really believe that you don't know it all, which is so important because you should never feel like you know it all. You should always be learning. And as someone who is in the educational field, I guess you do that before you ever hit it, hit upload.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Speaking of that, do you have any advice for for us? For you?

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Uh, I mean, I listen, I like what you're doing. I think the thumbnail strategy with the red and a yellow is amazing. It I there's another channel that does that. Uh, what is the channel? I just recently saw it. The red and yellow looks really familiar to me. Um, but uh the one thing I say that stood out to me when I was just scrolling down just the first couple of videos, um, is the comforter one. The thumbnail for me is awesome because I have I love a good uh uh a comfort, not a comforter, sorry, the lazy boy. Lazy boy, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it appeals to me. I immediately want to click that because I'm like, well, wait a minute, the comfort trap. Like the the gap between what you're implying there and what I want to know about that is so good. How and it says how comfort slowly broke the American home. Like, I'm all in. That makes me all in. Of course, it performed really well. I think for me, the some of the best stuff that uh when I used to do YouTube coaching for larger content creators, uh always did well. It's the stuff that that is so common to the common person. So, for example, um, one of the things that uh I used to work a lot really deeply with like donut media. Um, some of the the content they're on YouTube. Yeah, they're great. They're great over there.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

I watch every car YouTuber.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Oh, okay. I know I know half of them, actually, to be honest. I I know or or coached half of them. Um the uh the the things I always loved what we work on were things like does un does the the different types of unleaded gas actually matter? Like, you know, because you go to the pump nowadays and it's it's half a mortgage payment. So you would want to know if I pay for the cheapest one, am I ruining my car? So things like that. I have a friend who's uh um who's on YouTube who does architectural stuff. Some of our most viral stuff was the most uh you would think from the outset, kind of like boring. For example, um, so is C Jane Drill, she's actually been on the podcast before. Uh one of her biggest viral videos was why is a carpenter's pencil flat? And it's like, yeah, yeah, why is it flat? It's like those things that are so common that I think would be really interesting. Um, and you do architectural stuff, so it would be like, I would want to know about things in my home, in which you've done some stuff already, but I would want to know more things. Um, I'm in the middle of selling my home, so there's there's decisions that were made in my home that I'm like, why did they do this? I would really love to know those things. So, in my opinion, I think I think you should continue to do the cool big stuff, but by the same token, let's do the stuff that's like I see this thing in my house every day. Why is it this thing? And I think the audience for that is so big. The TAM, the total adjustable market is so big that you could have a viral breakout. That would be what I would say. All right, um, I'll take it. So if if you need advice like that, you got to be a guest on the podcast. I don't do the coaching anymore, so you got to be a guest on the podcast. Uh, and then I'll lock in for you. But thank you so much for joining us. And if you want to see more, like I said, there'll be links in the description, and I have another video for you right here that you should watch. See y'all in the next one.